What the heck is "spirituality"?

[_madeleine]

Just wondering if you still feel the spirits of people around you or other spirits, or how you interperet that experience.

I just let things be what they are.

[_Inconceivable]

TAO,
I don't make this connection: Spirituallity = trusting unseen true stuff.

I do not trust certain things that I cannot see, even if they are true.

I can give you some examples if you'd like.

No, I understand what you mean... but this is part of the test of life I think... to learn to trust the things that are true. =).

I don't think you understand what I'm saying at all.

I am talking about spirit connections - spiritual communication with the unseen world as well as with mortals. Just because there is this amazing connection doesn't mean the inspiration/revelation is truthful or even useful.

Smith said he was visited by an angel who threatened his life to force polygamy. When we break it down, this angel (if there ever was one) did not convey the first law of mortality: agency. Apparently, the real test that Smith failed was that he fell for words of an angel of darkness.

The tests you're talking about is when we exercize faith that God will help us understand why his revelations don't always work. In my opinion, most revelations come from our dead friends, relatives and other medlers that have little more than their own life experience to draw upon.

Not everything that we cannot see that communicates with us is infalable - regardless of their motive. What they convey (or channel to and through us) is simply not always true.

[_Polygamy-Porter]

Smith said he was visited by an angel who threatened his life to force polygamy. When we break it down, this angel (if there ever was one) did not convey the first law of mortality: agency. Apparently, the real test that Smith failed was that he fell for words of an angel of darkness.

Mopologetic response to this is that Smith was given the free agency to choose between getting some jailbait poontang or death.

Obviously and THANKFULLY he chose the romp in the hay with Fanny. And good thing he did otherwise we would not have the temple ceremony nor being together as a family for frickin ever!

[_TAO]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying at all.

I am talking about spirit connections - spiritual communication with the unseen world as well as with mortals. Just because there is this amazing connection doesn't mean the inspiration/revelation is truthful or even useful.

*shrugs* I disagree. I understand what you mean when you say 'it doesn't mean truth', but let me tell you - the tone, the actions of that spirit will let you know whether it is truthful or not. You may know it by it's words and actions. Follow your instinct in that sense.

Smith said he was visited by an angel who threatened his life to force polygamy. When we break it down, this angel (if there ever was one) did not convey the first law of mortality: agency. Apparently, the real test that Smith failed was that he fell for words of an angel of darkness.

I oftentimes think people assume that the 'death' referred to would be physical - it wouldn't. The angel is carrying a sword, yes, but that is not the meaning of the word death... the meaning was... spiritual death. When one gets that amount of knowledge, even a small fall can be huge. The more knowledge you have, the more responsibility you have as well - and the angel was warning him of what the consequences would be for him if he did not listen to the revelation. He still had his agency.

I don't know if the 'death' also includes 'physical death' (it might, just as it did for some people in the Book of Mormon), but I do know it refers to 'spiritual death'.

The tests you're talking about is when we exercize faith that God will help us understand why his revelations don't always work. In my opinion, most revelations come from our dead friends, relatives and other medlers that have little more than their own life experience to draw upon.

That may be, that it might, however, I don't think we receive revelations for others; I think we receive them for ourselves (save for church leaders)... sometimes, I have to be careful what I post, because the things shown to me aren't necessarily for other people.

The test of faith is important however, because it is what will get you to follow God obediently. Without it, I don't think we would. It's the only way to test us while God isn't able to be here on the Earth.

Not everything that we cannot see that communicates with us is infalable - regardless of their motive. What they convey (or channel to and through us) is simply not always true.

I have had certain things shown to me, that one might consider fallible, where my original thought to what God meant was incorrect, but later I realize, that sometimes I take things God says too far. It has taught me alot about what to take from spiritually influenced thoughts.

I try to be as careful as possible not to take his things farther then he would like me take them; it's a painstaking but worthwhile process.

[_zeezrom]

Using my TBM methods, I have been successful in discovering the truth as I see it. I have been given an answer that the Mormon church is not true. This, through "spiritual" means.

How can these contradict someone elses answers?

Conclusion: spiritual methods are unreliable and therefore, not real.

[_mentalgymnast]

1 Corinthians 2

11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Spirituality for religious folks entails seeking after God and/or the infinite. This seems to be a pursuit that many skeptics/humanists have tossed to the wayside. Those among this group that claim spirituality end up defining it in different terms. And that's where the meaning of the word can get a bit fuzzy.

Regards,
MG

[_Inconceivable]

Using my TBM methods, I have been successful in discovering the truth as I see it. I have been given an answer that the Mormon church is not true. This, through "spiritual" means.

How can these contradict someone elses answers?

Conclusion: spiritual methods are unreliable and therefore, not real.

Maybe you asked a follow up question like:

Zee: God, have you been bullshitting me all my life?

God: Hell ya. You've been punked, dork. Never thought you'd ask.

[_Ezias]

.

[_Ezias]

.

[_Gadianton]

In mormondom it is a perpetual self induced emotional epiphany which confirms the bias that the Mormon church is "true".

Zeez, this is what the normal skeptical take is and succinctly put. I respect the view, but as a spiritual eliminativist I would change it to, "In Mormondom, it is the learned behavior to speak, whether by pronouncement or implication, as if one has had epiphanies, feelings, experiences, changes in paradigms, moments of peace, and so on induced by the HG, who is "confirming truth".