Ghosts?

[_Buffalo]

If such things were real, we would have some non-subjective evidence for them.

Buffalo,
You're probably better off thinking you're right. Why add another stumper to the many things that make little sense in our lives, eh?

No offence taken.

Respectfully, I am right.

[_Simon Belmont]

Buffalo, you haven't answered my questions. Since you are so sure that you are correct, and are the only one who fully understands consciousness (why you're holding out on major neurological research institutions I do now know), I will ask the questions again.

• What is the exact point at which consciousness enters a human fetus?
• Is consciousness made of energy, matter, or something else altogether?
• If it is made of energy, do the normal laws of physics apply to it, or does it exist outside of these laws (energy cannot be destroyed or created)?

I'm sorry, I should have said "objective, credible evidence." I thought that was implied by my stance. You can find eye witness accounts for any nonsense, from alien abductions to appearances of the Virgin Mother and Elvis Presley.

Much of it is reported by normal, sane people who have never before had an experience like it, and never do again. How do you explain that?

Well, I didn't invent it, but the device exists. It's called an EEG.

That measures electrical activity. It does not measure consciousness. If electrical activity = consciousness, then my laptop is also conscious, as is my toaster.

[_harmony]

If electrical activity = consciousness, then my laptop is also conscious, as is my toaster.

That explains my burnt toast this morning!

[_Buffalo]

Buffalo, you haven't answered my questions. Since you are so sure that you are correct, and are the only one who fully understands consciousness (why you're holding out on major neurological research institutions I do now know), I will ask the questions again.

• What is the exact point at which consciousness enters a human fetus?
• Is consciousness made of energy, matter, or something else altogether?
• If it is made of energy, do the normal laws of physics apply to it, or does it exist outside of these laws (energy cannot be destroyed or created)?

1) Not sure - ask a doctor who specializes in that area
2) Consciousness is a state of the brain, it isn't made of anything anymore than "anger" is made of anything
3) See above

Much of it is reported by normal, sane people who have never before had an experience like it, and never do again. How do you explain that?

The human brain is quite capable of fooling itself into believing it experienced something that never actually happened - in normal, sane people. The phenomenon is well documented.

That measures electrical activity. It does not measure consciousness. If electrical activity = consciousness, then my laptop is also conscious, as is my toaster.

In humans an EEG measures consciousness. If there is no reading on an EEG, there is no consciousness, anymore than a dead battery would give off electricity even though the multimeter reads 0 volts.

[_Jersey Girl]

What this thread needs is a visit from The Dude. Really.

[_Simon Belmont]

1) Not sure - ask a doctor who specializes in that area

Well that would be you, since you said definitively:

... we know that consciousness cannot be sustained when certain conditions are not present in the brain. When the brain dies, there is no consciousness.

You believe that you are the expert, so can you please answer the questions?

In humans an EEG measures consciousness. If there is no reading on an EEG, there is no consciousness, anymore than a dead battery would give off electricity even though the multimeter reads 0 volts.

You have no way to demonstrate that, unless you really have invented a device which measures consciousness and not just electrical activity.

[_Jersey Girl]

Simon,

How do you think consciousness can exist after brain death? And why?

[_Buffalo]

1) Not sure - ask a doctor who specializes in that area

Well that would be you, since you said definitively:

... we know that consciousness cannot be sustained when certain conditions are not present in the brain. When the brain dies, there is no consciousness.

You believe that you are the expert, so can you please answer the questions?

I never claimed to be an expert. I was just stating something that's very obvious. Consciousness is dependent upon the functionality and life of the brain. That is what all evidence says. You might just as well believe that the strength of physical muscles somehow will continue to exist longer after the muscles have decomposed. That would be just as fantastic.

In humans an EEG measures consciousness. If there is no reading on an EEG, there is no consciousness, anymore than a dead battery would give off electricity even though the multimeter reads 0 volts.

You have no way to demonstrate that, unless you really have invented a device which measures consciousness and not just electrical activity.

Electrical activity in the brain is an indicator of consciousness. These are very basic facts you're trying to deny in the advancement of your belief in magic.

If you'd like to refute these facts, please demonstrate a single case of consciousness that existed after the death of the brain. I'll wait.

[_Simon Belmont]

Simon,

How do you think consciousness can exist after brain death? And why?

There are many theories. One is that, because consciousness is energy and energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it has to "exist" somewhere, in some form.

I, of course, believe that our consciousness or "soul" or "spirit" returns to that from which it came; our spiritual home.

[_Simon Belmont]

I never claimed to be an expert.

The athiest (you, in this case) claims to have all knowledge:

we know that consciousness cannot be sustained when certain conditions are not present in the brain. When the brain dies, there is no consciousness.

Do we know, or don't we, Buffalo? Have you constructed a device or invented a method by which we can measure actual consciousness and sentience? This device would need to measure the ability to understand ourselves, our surroundings, our level of interpretation of experience, feelings and emotions, in short, it would need to measure our level of awareness. Is there such a device?

I was just stating something that's very obvious. Consciousness is dependent upon the functionality and life of the brain.

That is not obvious. That is not even demonstrated by any evidence.

That is what all evidence says. You might just as well believe that the strength of physical muscles somehow will continue to exist longer after the muscles have decomposed. That would be just as fantastic.

False analogy. Poor logic, Buffalo.

Electrical activity in the brain is an indicator of consciousness.

It's also an indicator of brain health or brain death. It is not an indicator of consciousness.

If you'd like to refute these facts, please demonstrate a single case of consciousness that existed after the death of the brain. I'll wait.

Well, there are NDEs, there is the Law of Consecration of Energy.