MsJack wrote:Inclusivism holds that faith in Christ in the non-Christians who are saved is subconscious or implicit, so this does not contradict inclusivism. For a classic example of this in Christian literature, see Emeth.
And I didn't ask you where the Bible teaches that non-believers are potentially going to hell; I asked where it teaches that members of rival Christian groups are going to hell.
The ironic part is, in asserting that there's only one right way to take the texts of the Bible and anyone who takes it another way is just "interpreting" away the things they dislike, you've shown yourself to have more in common with the intellectually backwards fundamentalists you're trying to mock than any of the Christians commenting on this thread.
I don't blame you for wanting YEC fundamentalism to be "real" biblical Christianity though. They're extremely low-hanging fruit, and you're obviously not capable of engaging more than that.
Aristotle and Mr. Stak, thanks for chiming in.
I wasn't disputing your comments on denominationalism and inclusivism (Jesus did say those who are not against me are for me - of course he also said the opposite), but that is completely irrelevant. The fact remains that, according the Bible, your supposedly loving God will torture the vast majority of humanity for all eternity simply for not worshiping him. Do you think the punishment fits the crime?
I appreciate your efforts to civilize Christianity, I really do. But you do so at the expense of your Bible. I'm just pointing that out.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
Buffalo wrote:The fact remains that, according the Bible, your supposedly loving God will torture the vast majority of humanity for all eternity simply for not worshiping him. Do you think the punishment fits the crime?
By these words it seems to be indicated that every sinner kindles for himself the flame of his own fire, and is not plunged into some fire which has been already kindled by another, or was in existence before himself. Of this fire the fuel and food are our sins, which are called by the Apostle Paul “wood, and hay, and stubble.” -- Origen, De Principiis
Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei
(I lost access to my Milesius account, so I had to retrieve this one from the mothballs.)
Buffalo wrote:The fact remains that, according the Bible, your supposedly loving God will torture the vast majority of humanity for all eternity simply for not worshiping him. Do you think the punishment fits the crime?
By these words it seems to be indicated that every sinner kindles for himself the flame of his own fire, and is not plunged into some fire which has been already kindled by another, or was in existence before himself. Of this fire the fuel and food are our sins, which are called by the Apostle Paul “wood, and hay, and stubble.” -- Origen, De Principiis
Apologeticus antiquitus
He's quoting Isaiah, but Isaiah wasn't talking about hell, as the Jews didn't have any concept of hell.
10 Who among you fears the LORD and obeys the word of his servant? Let the one who walks in the dark, who has no light, trust in the name of the LORD and rely on their God. 11 But now, all you who light fires and provide yourselves with flaming torches, go, walk in the light of your fires and of the torches you have set ablaze. This is what you shall receive from my hand: You will lie down in torment.
In other words, independent thinkers will be punished by the great and powerful Yahweh.
The problem with quoting the Bible is really there is no unifying theology. It starts out with a jumbled mish mash of Canaanite and Babylonian myths, then the Yahwist/Jewish theology slowly emerges, and then you have the Hebraic Christianity of the gospels contrasted with the very different Pauline Christianity. No wonder there are so many Abrahamic sects.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
Simon Belmont wrote: That is what seems to be the purpose of this entire board (with the exception of a small number of posters). To make lame-ass attempts at lampooning someone else's faith (Mormonism).
Pobrecito Simon! Lo siento por ti!
Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei
(I lost access to my Milesius account, so I had to retrieve this one from the mothballs.)
Buffalo wrote:He's quoting Isaiah, but Isaiah wasn't talking about hell, as the Jews didn't have any concept of hell.
That is false, of course. One can debate when Jews first believed in hell but you cannot claim they did not have "any concept of hell."
It starts out with a jumbled mish mash of Canaanite and Babylonian myths, then the Yahwist/Jewish theology slowly emerges, and then you have the Hebraic Christianity of the gospels contrasted with the very different Pauline Christianity. No wonder there are so many Abrahamic sects.
LOL. The above is claptrap.
Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei
(I lost access to my Milesius account, so I had to retrieve this one from the mothballs.)
Buffalo wrote:He's quoting Isaiah, but Isaiah wasn't talking about hell, as the Jews didn't have any concept of hell.
That is false, of course. One can debate when Jews first believed in hell but you cannot claim they did not have "any concept of hell."
At best, they had a purgatory, a place for all the dead, both good and bad. Hell was invented later.
Calculus Crusader wrote:
LOL. The above is claptrap.
The above is the unpleasant, unvarnished truth about the Bible. Its gods are stolen from the pantheon of the Canaanites. Its founding myths are stolen from the Babylonians and others. The Bible lacks any unifying theology whatsoever. In short, it's a jumbled mess, much worse than even the Mormon scriptures.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
At best, [Jews] had a purgatory, a place for all the dead, both good and bad.
I suppose you are thinking of Sheol.
Hell was invented later.
Then by your own admission, what you wrote previously was incorrect. Jews had a concept of hell, even if it came "later."
Buffalo wrote:
Calculus Crusader wrote:
LOL. The above is claptrap.
The above is the unpleasant, unvarnished truth about the Bible. Its gods are stolen from the pantheon of the Canaanites. Its founding myths are stolen from the Babylonians and others. The Bible lacks any unifying theology whatsoever. In short, it's a jumbled mess, much worse than even the Mormon scriptures.
No. You have "just enough of learning to misquote" when it comes to the Bible. "Hebraic Christianity of the Gospels" vs. "very different Pauline Christianity." LOL. Where do you get this ****? Spong?
Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei
(I lost access to my Milesius account, so I had to retrieve this one from the mothballs.)