Gun shooting in Arizona

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_Buffalo
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Re: Gun shooting in Arizona

Post by _Buffalo »

Obiwan wrote:Let me tell you a little secret. Most Mormons are conservatives and most of us certainly aren't "anti-intellectual"


This is where I stopped reading. According to the Lord's anointed, the three enemies of the church are intellectuals, feminists and homosexuals. Mormons must therefore be anti-intellectual or out of harmony with God.

Sorry!
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Obiwan
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Re: Gun shooting in Arizona

Post by _Obiwan »

Quasimodo wrote:
Obiwan wrote:Conservatives would agree, that's why the attempted slam by liberals of trying to blaim this thing on conservatives was so offensive. But even further, our point is to show that if he WAS actually "anything", he was more leftist than he was conservative.

After all, that I can recall, every person that tried to kill an American President has been a leftist. From Lincoln, to JFK, to Reagan, and now some Democrats. Not all leftists are cohesive and of one mind either, sometimes they can be enemies with each other. But ideologically speaking, they are very close and related, believing many/most of the same kinds of things.


Darn! Did I just bolster the conservative view? :). I just think that in this instance, it's not conservative or liberal, just schizophrenic. As was Hinckley (Reagan's shooter).

Still, Presidential assassins are a very small group. I'll agree that Oswald was most likely a Communist. I think Booth was definitely conservative, though (Republicans were the liberals in those days).


No they weren't..... See my post above. They were "classical" liberals in the traditional meaning of the word, not today's modern liberal.
_Obiwan
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Re: Gun shooting in Arizona

Post by _Obiwan »

Eric wrote:
Obiwan wrote:After all, that I can recall, every person that tried to kill an American President has been a leftist. From Lincoln, to JFK, to Reagan, and now some Democrats.


This is so laughably false I can't believe it's being repeated again. Do you know nothing about history? Holy cow.


I know the history well, which is why I know liberal arguments on this are what are actually false, not my statement. Of course, I'm not saying every single one was in totality in perfect harmony a leftist, but most were certainly mostly leftist, and certainly not in almost any way conservative. Remember, even leftists might have some "conservative tendency's", but that doesn't make them conservative if most everything else about them is leftist.

John McCain for example while yes a conservative had/has a great deal of liberal tendecy's, thus most conservatives didn't actually want him for president. We ended up with our "least" preferred choice of all the Republicans. But, he was still conservative for the most part and way better than Obama, since he is who we ended up with. Likewise, some liberals have some conservative tendacy's which some stanch liberals are critical of them for, but they are still liberals, even with those conservative tendacy's.
_Obiwan
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Re: Gun shooting in Arizona

Post by _Obiwan »

Calculus Crusader wrote:Many assassins and would-be assassins have been leftists:

McKinley: Assassinated by a leftist (anarchist)

Truman: Failed assassination attempt by leftists (PR nationalists)

Several U.S. Representatives (i.e., U.S. Capitol shooting of 1954) : Failed assassination attempt by leftists (PR nationalists)

Kennedy: Assassinated by a leftist

Senate bombing 1971: leftists (Weather underground)

Ford: Failed assassination attempt by leftist

Senate bombing 1983: leftists (communist revolutionaries)


Buffalo wrote:I guess in CC-speak, leftist means "anyone who shoots a public figure."


Nope, it's simply leftists who don't have "stable" brains and are willing to in an unjust way do so. Not that a conservative might not ever do so, but a conservative would do so when it's most really called for.

Anarchy is no more liberalism than it is conservatism.


Yes it is.... Have you actually compared the Tea Party demonstrations with Liberal Demonstrations???
Liberalism is FULL of radicals and nuts, full of ignorant youth who are easily impressionable. Liberals fire bomb, commit violence, vandalism, etc. etc. You've almost NEVER seen a conservative doing these things.

John Hinckley, Jr. (attempted Reagan assassination) was conservative


Hinckley WAS NOT a "conservative"..... He was a rich moma's boy who wrote home a lot for money, was mentally unstable having an obsession with Jody Foster from watching a movie about killing a president. He stalked Carter even.

Just because Hinckley's family was likely conservative doesn't mean he was. From all the evidence he was clearly nothing but just a nut.

John Wilkes Booth was conservative


Booth also WAS NOT a conservative.... Republicans are conservatives and ALWAYS have been. Booth was highly against Linclon and Republicans, against the abolition of slavery, was against extending voting rights to slaves. He was also an "actor".

Just because the confederecy used a conservative issue such as "state rights" as it's main excuse for it's actions doesn't mean they were conservative in every other way. Slavery was not a conservative ideology. Booth also was anti-immigrant, and no conservative has ever been anti-immigrant. Anti-illegal immigration is not being anti-immigrant.

The man who assassinated MLK was most assuredly of the right wing.


We have no idea who 'really' killed King, thus you are just assuming. If it was James Earl Ray that killed him as most and the government investigators believe, Ray was a segregationist and racist who was a follower of George Wallace who was a DEMOCRATE. And since both John & Robert Kennedy were killed by leftists, there is no reason to assume king wasn't either since this was the case. King was a Republican and a conservative, thus no conservative would have killed him, even though he did have some liberal tendecy's. John and Robert would both be considered Bush conservatives today, and the same is for King. King for example was against Vietnam, and likewise there are conservatives today against the current wars such as Ron Paul & Alex Jones. King likely wouldn't have been considered a "mainstream" conservative such as these guys aren't, but he WAS a conservative and a Republican.

In conclusion, all three of your examples have been debunked. They were either individuals with no major ideology or more so clearly leftist than conservative.

Nice try.... but no cigar.

Again, another example of liberals perverting facts.....
_Quasimodo
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Re: Gun shooting in Arizona

Post by _Quasimodo »

Obiwan wrote:Booth also WAS NOT a conservative.... Republicans are conservatives and ALWAYS have been.


You may have a hard time defending that assertion. You're the only person I've run across (liberal or conservative) that doubts that the Republicans were Liberal in the beginning. I don't think they started getting Conservative until after Teddy Roosevelt.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
_Obiwan
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Re: Gun shooting in Arizona

Post by _Obiwan »

Buffalo wrote:
Calculus Crusader wrote:
You are really trying to wrest that dunce cap away from Eric, eh?


No one will ever succeed in taking it away from you CC, desperate as you are to paint the reading a single leftist book as indicative of leftist thought processes, while ignoring the right wing book (Mein Kampf) and then the vast majority of the books which are neither left nor right.


I see you've fallen for the liberal lie that Nazi'ism was "right" rather than left as it actually was. :(
"Mein Kampf" is NOT "right wing"..... Another lie promoted by leftists.

Nazi'ism is the the NATIONAL SOCIALISTS party.....

Mein Kampf was written by Hitler when he was in Prison for trying to overthrow the German government. I don't know of ANY conservative nor conservative ideology that believes governments should be overthrown accept in "extreme" circumstances such as being under the rule of a facist dictator, do you???

Hitler was big in "Unions" and the "workers"..... Do you know of any conservative that is so big into such??? Of course, such is a technique of facists to gain power, hence why socialists/communists/liberals/etc. use such to gain power. This is a liberal phenomenum and ideology, not a conservative one.

Liberals believe in "Jewish conspiracy's".... Conservatives do not. Conservatives support the Jews and Israel, liberals do not.

It is true that this is a case in which brother ideology's have become enemies, i.e. communism & socialism, but that doesn't make Hitler actually conservative, he was a socialist facist, not a conservative.

I don't know of any conservatives who are or ever were "racist" as this book promotes, do you? Of course, I'm talking about actual racism, not the liberal bearing false witness propaganda which falsely paints conservatives as racist.

I don't know of any conservative that want's to eliminate the 10 Commandments from public consiousness, do you? But I certainly know plenty of liberals ones who do.

In conclusion, on multiple fronts and many more "Mein Kampf" cannot and is not to be considered a "conservative" book. You have willingly fallen for and are promoting liberal propaganda, rather than truth and fact. If you are a Mormon, you should be ashamed. If you are an anti-mormon, I'm not surprised, but it's just sad.
_Obiwan
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Re: Gun shooting in Arizona

Post by _Obiwan »

Quasimodo wrote:
Obiwan wrote:Booth also WAS NOT a conservative.... Republicans are conservatives and ALWAYS have been.


You may have a hard time defending that assertion. You're the only person I've run across (liberal or conservative) that doubts that the Republicans were Liberal in the beginning. I don't think they started getting Conservative until after Teddy Roosevelt.


Did you even read my previous posts...???

You are confused as most liberals are. Republicans were "classical" liberals in beginning, meaning they were what the word liberal actually used to mean. It's "liber" the root word of liberty, libertarian etc. They were also conservatives, because conservatism embraces the principles of liberty and freedom.

Liberals falsely try to promote George Washington for example as a "liberal". Yes, he was a classical liberal, but he wasn't anything close to a modern liberal.

Read the book "Liberal Fascism" and learn something....
_Quasimodo
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Re: Gun shooting in Arizona

Post by _Quasimodo »

Obiwan wrote:Hitler was big in "Unions" and the "workers"..... Do you know of any conservative that is so big into such??? Of course, such is a technique of facists to gain power, hence why socialists/communists/liberals/etc. use such to gain power. This is a liberal phenomenum and ideology, not a conservative one.


Hitler abolished trade unions and replaced them with a government run system shortly after taking power.

The Nazi's were the mortal enemies of the communists. Many German Communists ended up in concentration camps.

At the first opportunity, he attacked the Soviet Union.

Once again, your the only Conservative I know that's saying these things.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
_Kevin Graham
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Re: Gun shooting in Arizona

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Most doesn't mean all. Further, most people who have such degrees also leave Faith/Religion and/or become atheist, Mormons being the exception to the rule however. You suffer from the common stawman, thinking "most" somehow means the same as "good", "true", and "right".


Uh, you're the one who insistuated that people become conservative after age 40, implying they the more they learn, the more they leave Liberalism. I simply debunked that piece of stupidity.

Simply because most educated liberals come from wealth and cities and thus have the "opportunity" to get a college degree


CFR.
not having to actually WORK for a living as much as conservatives


CFR.

Conservatives like Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, The Koch brothers and the Walmart Family who inherited their wealth? What about Buffett, did he earn his? You seem to think that those who have wealth have it only because they actually work harder than those who don't. Do hedge fund managers work that much harder than a warehouse worker?

doesn't mean that makes liberals somehow "smarter" than a conservative. Conservatives though they may not have as many degree holders, they are most certainly SELF educated.


Exactly the problem with this country. There are too many self-educated fools like droopy, Beck, Hannity, and Limbaugh. The product of such self-education is mass stupidity. They usually congregate in Mormon chapels or Tea Parties.

In my opinion YOU are the "uneducated fools" for your judgements of those men, especially Beck and Limbaugh. Their shows especially Beck's tv show is FULL of highly balanced and facts and information.


Based on your self-educated perspective? Beck has been shown to be an idiot on a weekly basis. He throws out Cleon Skousen and Ezra Benson conspiracy theory while jumping around like the ass-clown that he is. Historians mock his inaccurate portrayal of history, and economists laugh at his understanding of economics. He is all about one thing and one thing only, making money. He makes money using scare tactics to sell his books, which makes him even more of a dirtbag. And Olbermann is a moron too, but no one compares to Beck. At least Olbermann went to school. Is it a coincidence that Limbaugh, Beck and hannnity didn't? They got their job by being able to animate the public. It is great for rating, and that is all FOX News is. It is the Jerry Springer of journalism.

Media Matters does a wonderfful job exposing the idiots you worship. They challenge them every day and your icons are afraid of them. For example, Media Matters paid 86k for a lunch with Rupert Murdoch. It was auctioned for charity, but Murdoch refuses to attend. Moveon is pretty dumb, but Huffington is just an opinion piece conglomerate like realclearpolitics. Some of it is extreme, but most of it is balanced.

And no, you're never been me. I actually accepted reason and truth. You're still pissing on it.

The fact that you think Obama's was ghostwritten by Ayers and Beck is a balanced fella, makes you the most discredited goober on this board. Hell, I doubt even Droopy would have exposed himself like this.

Oh, and equating liberalism with anti-Mormonism proves you're even more of an idiot. I have at least seven Mormons on my Facebook, all of whom are staunch liberals, and all of whom range from the more intellectual side (Barney, Bradley, Brown, etc) And your intellectual icon, Hugh Nibley, was as Liberal as one could ever hope to be.
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_Obiwan
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Re: Gun shooting in Arizona

Post by _Obiwan »

Buffalo wrote:
Obiwan wrote:Let me tell you a little secret. Most Mormons are conservatives and most of us certainly aren't "anti-intellectual"


This is where I stopped reading. According to the Lord's anointed, the three enemies of the church are intellectuals, feminists and homosexuals. Mormons must therefore be anti-intellectual or out of harmony with God.

Sorry!


You are funny.... You quote "one or a couple of mentions" of such a statement as this AS IF such is "the Lords Annointed" and the general policy and views of the Church??? You must be an anti-mormon right???

Do you even know what was being "meant" when they threw in the word "intellectuals"???
He was talking about "liberal elitists" who go to college are anti-religion and think they are so wise, when they are anything but.

They weren't attacking intellectualism itself, they were attacking the perverted form of it. They were attacking those who are "learned and think they are wise". Sound familiar???

Learning is a fundamental precept of this Church. You not knowing that and trying to pervert our words from ONE PART of history as trying to mean something else, just shows your own lack of "wisdom". You are learned a little and have the gal to think you are wise. haa haa :(
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