The Boundaries of Experience

[_Simon Belmont]

The Boundaries of Experience

Experience and perception are all we have to interpret the world around us. Our five senses examine external data and translate it to our brain. When I hug my children, for example, I receive information about their temperature, weight, smell, what they look like, the sound of their laugh or of them breathing. But are my daughters really there? All of the evidence that my senses know how to gather tells me that they are, but how limited is this measurement?

When I was in college, we were required to read a book called Experience: an exploration into the structure and dynamics of human consciousness by G. Michael Blahnik. I loved this book, because the author explained things in a way that really “spoke” to me. At the beginning of the book, the author asks:

When we look at a chair, what do we see? Do we see a dense collection of atoms in motion? Do we see various shapes, colors, and textures together as a single whole or as a single whole against a background of other shapes, colors, and textures? Do we see an instance of “chari-ness” or “chair-hood”? Do we “see” sense data? Do we see only a portion of the chair, i.e. its phenomenal appearance rather than the chair as a whole? Do we simply see a chair?
Blahnik, M. (1997). P. 1.

If a being from outside our planet were to visit and to look upon this same chair, would that being simply see a collection of shapes and patterns, or a conglomeration of moving atoms? Is our interpretation of the chair based on our language, culture, and upbringing? ”I know it is a chair because that is what I was taught,” for example. Does reality exist beyond our experiences and perceptions?

If reality is the summation of our experiences and perceptions, then how are we to judge whether reality is objective or subjective? If it is merely subjective, then how are we to judge whether one person’s experience or perception is correct or incorrect?

I see hope for this thread in that we might be able to discuss the merits of spiritual experience, the importance of emotional and physical experience, and the necessity of scientific experience.

_________________
Disclaimer: It is my hope that this thread can remain civil and respectful. I regret to admit that many of you simply do not like me or my views, but I believe there are constructive methods with which to discuss opposing views, even if I have not always honored those methods. With that, and the realization that I am not a moderator and really cannot make or enforce any “rules,” I will politely ask the following of my fellow posters:

• No threads******g: no stupid pictures or idiotic comments, please.
• Be as civil and respectful as possible: I realize that this probably belongs in the Celestial board, but I want it to actually get some attention.
• I reserve the right to call “time of death” on this thread. Threads are never closed on MDB, but when time of death is declared I will no longer participate.

[_brade]

Great topic. I don't really want to add a lot right now, I'm a bit mentally exhausted from some goings on in the family, but I wanted to say this much. You said:

If it is merely subjective, then how are we to judge whether one person’s experience or perception is correct or incorrect?

If reality is merely subjective in the way you've sketched, then it seems to me that the question "how are we to judge whether one person's experience or perception is correct or incorrect?" is a question that we should deal with after we sort out the question of whether we ought to judge whether one person's experience or perception is correct or incorrect at all.

[_bcspace]

Flatland is a great place to start for wisdom on this issue.

[_sock puppet]

The Boundaries of Experience

Experience and perception are all we have to interpret the world around us. Our five senses examine external data and translate it to our brain. When I hug my children, for example, I receive information about their temperature, weight, smell, what they look like, the sound of their laugh or of them breathing. But are my daughters really there? All of the evidence that my senses know how to gather tells me that they are, but how limited is this measurement?

When I was in college, we were required to read a book called Experience: an exploration into the structure and dynamics of human consciousness by G. Michael Blahnik. I loved this book, because the author explained things in a way that really “spoke” to me. At the beginning of the book, the author asks:

When we look at a chair, what do we see? Do we see a dense collection of atoms in motion? Do we see various shapes, colors, and textures together as a single whole or as a single whole against a background of other shapes, colors, and textures? Do we see an instance of “chari-ness” or “chair-hood”? Do we “see” sense data? Do we see only a portion of the chair, i.e. its phenomenal appearance rather than the chair as a whole? Do we simply see a chair?
Blahnik, M. (1997). P. 1.

If a being from outside our planet were to visit and to look upon this same chair, would that being simply see a collection of shapes and patterns, or a conglomeration of moving atoms? Is our interpretation of the chair based on our language, culture, and upbringing? ”I know it is a chair because that is what I was taught,” for example. Does reality exist beyond our experiences and perceptions?

If reality is the summation of our experiences and perceptions, then how are we to judge whether reality is objective or subjective? If it is merely subjective, then how are we to judge whether one person’s experience or perception is correct or incorrect?

I see hope for this thread in that we might be able to discuss the merits of spiritual experience, the importance of emotional and physical experience, and the necessity of scientific experience.

_________________
Disclaimer: It is my hope that this thread can remain civil and respectful. I regret to admit that many of you simply do not like me or my views, but I believe there are constructive methods with which to discuss opposing views, even if I have not always honored those methods. With that, and the realization that I am not a moderator and really cannot make or enforce any “rules,” I will politely ask the following of my fellow posters:

• No threads******g: no stupid pictures or idiotic comments, please.
• Be as civil and respectful as possible: I realize that this probably belongs in the Celestial board, but I want it to actually get some attention.
• I reserve the right to call “time of death” on this thread. Threads are never closed on MDB, but when time of death is declared I will no longer participate.

Simon,

When you are in a room and want to sit somewhere in that room, do you look for a chair? Do attempt to sit where you do not see a chair? If not, why not?

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

Nothing real can be threatened.
Nothing unreal exists.
Herein lies the peace of God.

Intro to A Course in Miracles

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Hello,

I think when you have to resort to the realm of metaphysical reasoning in order to make sense of spirituality then you have a tough sell, especially so when you belong to an organization that claims to reveal plain and precious truths. If God, as it were, is so nuanced and mysterious then Mormonism gets it wrong. God is defined by the Mormon church, over and over again as something real, tangbile, and with a body of flesh and bone. Wondering if his atomic makeup qualifies him as existential or not is an exercise in foolishness, aside from claiming his existence itself.

V/R
Dr. Cam

[_Simon Belmont]

If reality is merely subjective in the way you've sketched, then it seems to me that the question "how are we to judge whether one person's experience or perception is correct or incorrect?" is a question that we should deal with after we sort out the question of whether we ought to judge whether one person's experience or perception is correct or incorrect at all.

Good point, brade. I think that we do judge the experience of others whether we believe it to be a morally correct thing to do or not. What do you think?

Edit: I also think we judge our own experiences. Was it a dream? Was it "real?"

[_brade]

If reality is merely subjective in the way you've sketched, then it seems to me that the question "how are we to judge whether one person's experience or perception is correct or incorrect?" is a question that we should deal with after we sort out the question of whether we ought to judge whether one person's experience or perception is correct or incorrect at all.

Good point, brade. I think that we do judge the experience of others whether we believe it to be a morally correct thing to do or not. What do you think?

We most certainly do. But, if reality is merely subjective, should we?

[_Simon Belmont]

Simon,

When you are in a room and want to sit somewhere in that room, do you look for a chair? Do attempt to sit where you do not see a chair? If not, why not?

I might, but what am I really looking for? A set of geometrically connected shapes that resemble "chair-ness," a collection covalently bonded atoms? If I do not see a chair, does that really mean a chair does not exist there?

When you see a chair, sock puppet, does language play a part in your interpretation of that object? Do you think in your mind "that there is a chair!"

[_Simon Belmont]

Nothing unreal exists.

Also Kiri-kin-tha's first law of metaphysics.