Yea. Let's elevate the conversation back to its normal heights of polite seriousness by pulling DCP's chain.Everybody Wang Chung wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:55 amProfessor Lem,
I’m sure I speak for many here when I say this is not discussmormonism.com’s finest hour.
"Are you on your period or something?" and other sexist remarks
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Re: "Are you on your period or something?" a sexist remark made HERE.
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Re: "Are you on your period or something?" a sexist remark made HERE.
Could somebody draw up a list of expressions not to use?
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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Re: "Are you on your period or something?" a sexist remark made HERE.
Or we could speculate on whether a recent experience of erectile disfunction problems might be influencing your attitude towards women posters who dislike having other posters such as yourself speculate on the possible mood effects of their menstrual cycle. Sauce for goose, sauce for gander and so on.Analytics wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:35 pmYea. Let's elevate the conversation back to its normal heights of polite seriousness by pulling DCP's chain.Everybody Wang Chung wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:55 amProfessor Lem,
I’m sure I speak for many here when I say this is not discussmormonism.com’s finest hour.
Or we might just decide not to go down that kind of damnfool road anymore, say sorry and move on ...
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
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Re: "Are you on your period or something?" a sexist remark made HERE.
I see the irony, LOL.Jersey Girl wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:23 amSo what I'm getting from his explanation is that he thought you wanted to be treated like one of the guys so he decided to go for your ovaries.
Also research my history of sexism on these forums, okay?Jersey Girl wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:23 amShow me one place on this forum where Analytics has ever responded to one of the guys whom he assessed was going on a rampage because one of the guys said Crap and threw an F bomb and hit one of the guys back by making a remark about one of the guys reproductive system.
You're good at research. Look that up for me, k?
As background, in the Spring of 1998 I was a TBM and was the gospel doctrine teacher in my branch. I started to read the why-I-left stories at exmormon.org. The stories from women who were victims of sexism in the Church were especially eye-opening. Over the course of just a couple of days, I went from a TBM to having a moral clarity that it would be unforgivable of me to expose my then two-year old daughter to that Church again, and ended up resigning before I got somebody else to teach gospel doctrine for me the next Sunday.
Over the subsequent 23 years I've participated in the exMormon email group, the exMormon bulletin board, an old board called "LDS Talk", an old board called "Folks of the Fringe," ZLMB, and all of the incarnations of the FAIR board. Shades thought I was a quality poster and recruited me to post here.
Over those 23 years, I've only been accused of being a sexist three times:
The first was a couple of years ago when I posted a somewhat technical statistical argument about something or another, and Lem asked me a question about it. At the time I didn't know she had a strong background in statistics, and I thought her question was about the statistical theory. I happily tried to explain my thinking, and she responded by calling me a sexist. I'm sure she can give you the exact quotes, but as I recall she was upset because my post came across as mansplaining the concepts to a girl rather than explaining them to somebody unfamiliar with the statistical theory. She said something to the effect that I was making this a hostile environment for women by being nicer to her than I would be to a guy, and this came across as condescending.
It was a bizarre accusation, but I listened carefully and tried to take her advice and stop asking people the question "Does that make sense?"
The second time I was accused of sexism was yesterday, again by Lem (do you see a pattern here?). This time, my offending words were using the term "full-time missionaries" to refer to the statistic the Church publishes called "full-time missionaries," and for nothing that the age-sex distribution of this number changes over time. At first I was planning on explaining myself, despite fearing that Lem would reject my explanation and continue to insist I really am a sexist. This fear was confirmed when toon correctly understood my point, graciously clarified it for Lem, and Lem responded with:
My point really shouldn't be that difficult to understand, especially for somebody with a background in statistics. But she was digging in her heals and insisting that I was being sexist for talking about why I think New Children of Record is a better indicator of the Church's strength than Number of Full-Time Missionaries. Given her history I doubted she wasn't going to change her mind about this and the thread was going to be about my alleged sexism.Lem wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:05 pmNo, you didn't get my point. In fact, you have just exacerbated it. You are arguing that "the number of full time missionaries" measures growth and membership but only if "the number of full time missionaries" means MALE missionaries. If one wants to distinguish between the percentage of male and female missionaries and its impact on membership, then define it as such. Defining "full time missionaries" as exclusive of "sister missionaries" means you are defining "full time missionaries" as men, with the "sisters" as a separate category. That is sexist.
For numerous reasons that pissed me off. A lot. Strike one was a couple of years ago when she called me a sexist for attempting to answer a question she asked me. Strike two is when she called me a sexist for thinking that the statistic "number of full-time missionaries" is clouded over time by the changing age/sex distribution of missionaries. Strike three is when she called toon sexist for politely explaining my clear point.
This is obviously a moral failing on my part, but having my thread derailed with baseless accusations of being sexist pissed me off, so I decided to sarcastically say something that really was sexist so that Lem's righteous indignation would have a basis in fact.
It does make me wonder. In that magazine article that Lem quoted, the feminist suggested she should be forgiven for blowing up in response to some some little peccadillo her basically decent husband said. Can I be forgiven for blowing up for a little peccadillo that Lem said?
In any case, we now know something about each other. When somebody derails my thread with baseless accusations of sexism, I get pissed off and will be tempted to sarcastically say something that is over-the-top sexist for the expressed purpose of pissing off the person who pissed me off. And if I sarcastically say something that is over-the-top sexist, Lem will probably respond by taking it very seriously and doing everything she can to draw attention to it in her righteous indignation.
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Re: "Are you on your period or something?" a sexist remark made HERE.
Actually, I do NOT think it is acceptable to say that to a woman. That is why I said it.
I know something else about you--I knew the comment I made would piss you off. That's why I said it.
You quoted Victoria Brown as saying,
If she should be forgiven for being triggered by the really small thing her husband had said, should I be forgiven for being triggered by the way you derailed my thread with then-baseless accusations of sexism?I yelled at my husband last night. Not pick-up-your-socks yell. Not how-could-you-ignore-that-red-light yell.
This was real yelling. This was 30 minutes of from-the-gut yelling. Triggered by a small, thoughtless, dismissive, annoyed, patronizing comment. Really small. A micro-wave that triggered a hurricane. I blew. Hard and fast. And it terrified me. I’m still terrified by what I felt and what I said....I announced that I hate all men and wish all men were dead...
Sometimes women get pissed off and say things to hurt. Sometimes men do too.
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Re: "Are you on your period or something?" a sexist remark made HERE.
That is excellent advice. Thank you.Chap wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:02 amI have just read through this thread.
I am a man and my children include both genders. I have lived and worked with a lot of women in my life.
I suggest to Analytics, who is a clever and well-disposed person, that the appropriate response would have been for him simply to say "Sorry, I lost my temper there and wrote something that, on rereading, I wish I had not written." None of that "I only did it because she ..." stuff at all.
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Re: "Are you on your period or something?" a sexist remark made HERE.
Analytics,
You're cool and contribute high quality informational posts. Lemmie is cool and likewise contributes great material. Sometimes we say some crap that doesn't fly. <- I said a ridiculous thing to a woman here when I was drunk that was completely unwarranted and so over the top that to this day I feel a hot embarrassment about it. At the time, because banter between male posters can get intense, I was being an edgelord and unthinkingly 'treated her like I'd treat a dude', but was rightly called out for it. Why not just admit you screwed up, offer up a mea culpa, and think about the 'why' behind Lemmie's take? For example, the opening post on this thread was actually a really good thing, for me at least, that was born out of the exchange. This thread has been a good learning opportunity for me with regard to a woman's POV and why particular insults related to biology are such a visceral thing for some. I mean, you do you, just like I'm going to be me, but I think we can sometimes reorient some of the language we use when we get into it with someone who challenges us. It's tricky, for sure, but on this one I think instead of doubling down you can apply your logos and understand the historical narrative of a woman's experience - it is what it is.
- Doc
You're cool and contribute high quality informational posts. Lemmie is cool and likewise contributes great material. Sometimes we say some crap that doesn't fly. <- I said a ridiculous thing to a woman here when I was drunk that was completely unwarranted and so over the top that to this day I feel a hot embarrassment about it. At the time, because banter between male posters can get intense, I was being an edgelord and unthinkingly 'treated her like I'd treat a dude', but was rightly called out for it. Why not just admit you screwed up, offer up a mea culpa, and think about the 'why' behind Lemmie's take? For example, the opening post on this thread was actually a really good thing, for me at least, that was born out of the exchange. This thread has been a good learning opportunity for me with regard to a woman's POV and why particular insults related to biology are such a visceral thing for some. I mean, you do you, just like I'm going to be me, but I think we can sometimes reorient some of the language we use when we get into it with someone who challenges us. It's tricky, for sure, but on this one I think instead of doubling down you can apply your logos and understand the historical narrative of a woman's experience - it is what it is.
- Doc
Last edited by Doctor CamNC4Me on Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Re: "Are you on your period or something?" a sexist remark made HERE.
Thank you, Doc.
Lem,
I’m sorry for what I said. I was having a frustrating day in the real world, was oversensitive, and wrongly made an offensive comment. Thank you for calling me out on it and for explaining in detail why it was offensive.
Sincerely,
Roger
Lem,
I’m sorry for what I said. I was having a frustrating day in the real world, was oversensitive, and wrongly made an offensive comment. Thank you for calling me out on it and for explaining in detail why it was offensive.
Sincerely,
Roger
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Re: "Are you on your period or something?" a sexist remark made HERE.
I can't help but wondering if that was something of which I had firsthand knowledge. If so, I can only say that I came back at you without hesitation in some form or another and though I didn't quite understand what was going on at the time, I did come to understand it and I like you and that's all I really have to say about it.Doctor CamNC4Me wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:06 pmAnalytics,
You're cool and contribute high quality informational posts. Lemmie is cool and likewise contributes great material. Sometimes we say some crap that doesn't fly. <- I said a ridiculous thing to a woman here when I was drunk that was completely unwarranted and so over the top that to this day I feel a hot embarrassment about it. At the time, because banter between male posters can get intense, I was being an edgelord and unthinkingly 'treated her like I'd treat a dude', but was rightly called out for it. Why not just admit you screwed up, offer up a mea culpa, and think about the 'why' behind Lemmie's take? For example, the opening post on this thread was actually a really good thing, for me at least, that was born out of the exchange. This thread has been a good learning opportunity for me with regard to a woman's POV and why particular insults related to biology are such a visceral thing for some. I mean, you do you, just like I'm going to be me, but I think we can sometimes reorient some of the language we use when we get into it with someone who challenges us. It's tricky, for sure, but on this one I think instead of doubling down you can apply your logos and understand the historical narrative of a woman's experience - it is what it is.
- Doc
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