What lies did the Nauvoo Expositor print?

[_Darth J]

However, thank you for providing another case study of what it takes to try to rationalize a religious leader using a municipal government that he controls to silence public criticism of his secret, adulterous liaisons.

The odd thing to me is that whether Joseph did wrong in the Expositor episode is pretty much irrelevant to Joseph's prophetic calling. I don't understand why some people can't simply acknowledge that he did a wrong, stupid, and probably illegal thing in destroying the press. It's as if some people cannot imagine either an imperfect Joseph Smith or a narrative that strays from the party line.

Weird.

It's because if Joseph Smith abused his power in the city government to cover up his polyamorous relationships:

1. It has uncomfortable implications about whether polygamy was more about Joseph Smith's personal gratification than a commandment from God (not that Joseph followed that commandment, anyway).

2. The LDS Church has staked its claim on Joseph Smith being a hero who died because of his commitment to the gospel ("Death cannot conquer the hero again!"). If Joseph Smith rashly and illegally interfered with freedom of the press and destroyed private property, and was murdered for social and political reasons instead of being a martyr for his religion, then the disconnect between the facts and the official faith-promoting spin invites uncomfortable questions about the Church's credibility.

3. To admit what you are saying, one would also have to admit that Joseph and Hyrum lied to the city council, both actively and by omission, in allowing a resolution to pass that the Expositor was printing false statements.

[_Kishkumen]

The odd thing to me is that whether Joseph did wrong in the Expositor episode is pretty much irrelevant to Joseph's prophetic calling. I don't understand why some people can't simply acknowledge that he did a wrong, stupid, and probably illegal thing in destroying the press. It's as if some people cannot imagine either an imperfect Joseph Smith or a narrative that strays from the party line.

Weird.

Exactly. I think the problem is that theocrats who are receiving revelation from God aren't supposed to make those kinds of mistakes, at least according to those who place faith in them.

[_sock puppet]

Do you think because JSJr, the Mormon leader, was murdered that it would be okay if the Mormons murdered the Catholic pope?

I don't think this is what why me is trying to argue. My impression is that why me is providing important context that helps us understand why people may have reacted in the way that they did. Bad behavior is bad behavior and should be called as such. However, understanding the context surrounding bad behavior may help us understand motivations and (hopefully) learn a thing or two.

why me has never said it was bad behavior or illegal for JSJr and Hyrum Smith to have the Nauvoo Expositor offices destroyed and the type pied. He had defended it without exception. He points to the Mormon press in Missouri being destroyed as justification for JSJr and Hyrum Smith doing what they did.

[_sock puppet]

Do you think because JSJr, the Mormon leader, was murdered that it would be okay if the Mormons murdered the Catholic pope?

I don't think this is what why me is trying to argue. My impression is that why me is providing important context that helps us understand why people may have reacted in the way that they did. Bad behavior is bad behavior and should be called as such. However, understanding the context surrounding bad behavior may help us understand motivations and (hopefully) learn a thing or two.

sethpayne,

if the Mormons murdered the catholic pope, would you be pointing to Carthage 1844 as understanding the context of this bad thing?

[_Kishkumen]

He points to the Mormon press in Missouri being destroyed as justification for JSJr and Hyrum Smith doing what they did.

This is because the daily bread of the Mopologist is tit-for-tat retaliation. That which they do every day they will not see as wrong in their forebears.

[_sethpayne]

sethpayne,

if the Mormons murdered the catholic pope, would you be pointing to Carthage 1844 as understanding the context of this bad thing?

No. Not unless the murder was committed by a crazed Mormon who believed the 1844 Carthage murders were perpetrated by Catholics and somehow thought that killing the pope was payback. If such were the case, then this context would be quite relevant in understanding the motives of the murderer.

However, in this case we are dealing with two groups who are suspicious of each other and have tremendous animosity towards each other. The injustices (both real and perceived) of Missouri were fresh in the minds of the Nauvoo Saints and it isn't unrealistic to think that the rhetoric of the Warsaw Signal stirred fear and irrational/irresponsible response from the Mormons in Nauvoo. Likewise, Joseph Smith's Council of 50 and being anointed king of Israel created rumors that frightened and angered the people of IL.

It is kind of like understanding the connection between Haun's Mill and Mountain Meadows. You can't really understand MM without knowing about Haun's Mill.

[_Kishkumen]

Likewise, Joseph Smith's Council of 50 and being anointed king of Israel created rumors that frightened and angered the people of IL.

Go figure.

[_Blixa]

It is kind of like understanding the connection between Haun's Mill and Mountain Meadows. You can't really understand MM without knowing about Haun's Mill.

Actually you can.

[_sethpayne]

It is kind of like understanding the connection between Haun's Mill and Mountain Meadows. You can't really understand MM without knowing about Haun's Mill.

Actually you can.

Well, I suppose. But Haun's Mill is important in helping us understand the mindset of those southern Utah Mormons who were whipped up into a murderous war frenzy -- partially by leaders using rhetoric making reference to Missouri specifically and Haun's Mill specifically.

Seems to me Juanita Brooks and Will Bagley would have really missed the boat had they not discussed Haun's Mill in connection with MM.

[_why me]

I don't think this is what why me is trying to argue. My impression is that why me is providing important context that helps us understand why people may have reacted in the way that they did. Bad behavior is bad behavior and should be called as such. However, understanding the context surrounding bad behavior may help us understand motivations and (hopefully) learn a thing or two.

Hello Seth. I am glad that you understood the context of which I was writing. For some strange reason, the critics on this board just can not use their imagination and place themselves at that time at the scene. What happened to the Mormons in missouri had intended and unintended consequences for the saints and for the mobs. For the saints, they became suspicious of outsiders, esepcially those like Law who wished their leaders harm. And they saw the destruction of the expositor as a way to protect their freedom to worship freely and to protect their safety. .

And from their experiences in Missouri with their own presses and property destroyed saw the destruction of the Expositor as a justifiable act. Context is everything.