Wisconsin in the news

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_Droopy
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Re: Wisconsin in the news

Post by _Droopy »

Eric wrote:Some good ideas on how to solve this crisis: The US states’ budget crisis: Where should the money come from?

The two-year projected deficit of the state of Wisconsin is $3.6 billion, little more than a rounding error when considering the vast wealth of the American financial aristocracy. The Koch brothers, the ultra-right patrons of Governor Walker, could write a check to cover that deficit and still remain billionaires.

Let us consider, starting with the low-hanging fruit, where the money could be found to wipe out the deficits of all 50 states combined, which this year come to a projected $130 billion.

* The extension of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, enacted by a Democratic-controlled Congress in December with the approval of the Obama administration, pumps $700 billion over the next ten years into the pockets of the rich. Reclaiming two years of that tax windfall would eliminate all the state budget deficits combined.
* Total compensation at Wall Street banks and securities firms last year hit a record $135 billion, according to an analysis by the Wall Street Journal, on all-time-high revenue of $417 billion. The recipients of the Wall Street bailout could bail out the states out of their own pockets.
* The 400 richest individuals in the United States dispose of a staggering $1.37 trillion in assets, an average of nearly $3.5 billion apiece. A levy of 10 percent on the resources of these billionaires would also erase the deficits of all 50 states.
* Combined profits for all American corporations rocketed upwards in 2010, hitting an annual rate of $1.66 trillion in the third quarter. A tax of eight percent on those profits—the same percentage as the cut Walker seeks to impose on schoolteachers and park rangers—would eliminate all state deficits.
* US corporations are currently sitting on $2 trillion in cash, refusing to hire workers despite collecting tax cuts that are supposed to be incentives to do so. A levy of 10 percent on that idle cash would provide enough money to eliminate not only the deficits of the states, but the deficits of all cities and local governments too, as well as preserving the jobs of hundreds of thousands of public employees.
* Hedge funds assets rose to $1.92 trillion in 2010, the highest ever, up from $1.18 trillion at the beginning of the year. Given a standard earnings formula of 2 percent of total assets plus 20 percent of the increase, hedge fund bosses stood to collect roughly $186 billion in personal income. An 80 percent tax on that income—less than the percentage rate on multimillionaires levied under the Eisenhower administration—would produce more than enough revenue to put all 50 states in the black. (It should be pointed out that the top hedge fund manager, John Paulson, had a personal net profit of more than $5 billion in 2010, while more than a dozen hedge fund bosses had personal incomes above $2 billion and many more took in over $1 billion).



This is, as a cursory analysis makes clear, not in any sense a possible practical solution to the budget crisis among the American states, but a bloody red bone thrown to the passions and animosities of class envy, which is, to the point, among the core traditional reasons for the budgetary problems of both the states and the federal government. The idea Eric supports here, that of stealing the money of "the rich" that they have legally and honorably earned through productive economic activity, whether investing in the productive activities of others or founding there own, as a solution to the irrational, reckless, and irresponsible spending of the political class, is not a solution at all but merely an emotional vent for those imbued with ressentiment.

The fundamental problem here is that government, at both the federal and state level, is out of control as to its size, scope, and responsibilities. The answer to its financial problems (and many of ours) is that government spending must be cut, and cut severely, so that the private sector, where real jobs and real net wealth creation exist, can be relieved of the stiff competition for scarce capital resources with the state as well as the economy crippling taxes necessary to maintain the bloated, program and patronage laying egg sack of government.

It has been the traditional misuse of taxpayer funds by the political class that has brought us to the present situation, and there is no reason to believe that confiscating yet more funds from a tiny subgroup of wealthy Americans who form the core of the job creating classes of society, will be used in any wiser or more intelligent a manner than in the recent past.

Furthermore, and perhaps even more to the fundamental point, U.S. corporations, Wall Street banks, and hedge fund managers are not the cause of the state's present woes. The politicians, bureaucrats, and rapacious unionized public sector employees of those states are the clear and present cause, and it is therefore they who should shoulder the lion's share of the burden of making their states whole.

The entities I've mentioned above do not create any wealth. They consume the wealth generated by others, and then shrilly demand ever more from their fellow citizens and their own Rome's burn, one by one.
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_Eric

Re: Wisconsin in the news

Post by _Eric »

The idea Eric supports here, that of stealing the money of "the rich"


Stealing the money of the rich. I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. Good one.

Furthermore, and perhaps even more to the fundamental point, U.S. corporations, Wall Street banks, and hedge fund managers are not the cause of the state's present woes.


Oh boy... Really? You really believe that? Regardless, the article proposes solutions that solve the budget woes of all 50 states, not just Wisconsin.

The fundamental problem here is that government, at both the federal and state level, is out of control as to its size, scope, and responsibilities.


The fundamental problem here is rampant greed and corruption, that our current capitalist model is flawed and unsustainable, and that the rich don't come close to contributing their fair share. With all the loopholes written into the tax laws, by some estimates, most corporations pay the same percentage of income in taxes as the working class do.

The entities I've mentioned above do not create any wealth.


Why do they need to create wealth?
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Re: Wisconsin in the news

Post by _asbestosman »

* The extension of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, enacted by a Democratic-controlled Congress in December with the approval of the Obama administration, pumps $700 billion over the next ten years into the pockets of the rich. Reclaiming two years of that tax windfall would eliminate all the state budget deficits combined.
Interesting point. The rich shouldn't get breaks the rest of us do not enjoy. Job creation as a reason is apparently a lie as the stagnant economy shows.

* Total compensation at Wall Street banks and securities firms last year hit a record $135 billion, according to an analysis by the Wall Street Journal, on all-time-high revenue of $417 billion. The recipients of the Wall Street bailout could bail out the states out of their own pockets.

I thought they paid it back. If so, then I don't see why they should bail us out.

* The 400 richest individuals in the United States dispose of a staggering $1.37 trillion in assets, an average of nearly $3.5 billion apiece. A levy of 10 percent on the resources of these billionaires would also erase the deficits of all 50 states.

Lucky them, but I don't see why they are more responsible than the rest of us just because they have more money. Actually, I hear that many of them aren't die-hard republicans trying to prevent their wealth from being taxed. Doesn't mean they won't take advantage of all tax breaks they can get though.

* Combined profits for all American corporations rocketed upwards in 2010, hitting an annual rate of $1.66 trillion in the third quarter. A tax of eight percent on those profits—the same percentage as the cut Walker seeks to impose on schoolteachers and park rangers—would eliminate all state deficits.

Gotta hand it to ya there. Fair is fair. I don't see why schoolteachers should take a pay cut but not everyone else.


* US corporations are currently sitting on $2 trillion in cash, refusing to hire workers despite collecting tax cuts that are supposed to be incentives to do so. A levy of 10 percent on that idle cash would provide enough money to eliminate not only the deficits of the states, but the deficits of all cities and local governments too, as well as preserving the jobs of hundreds of thousands of public employees.

If we gave tax breaks for job creation and they don't do that, then we should probably remove those tax breaks 'cause it ain't workin'. Let's give them an incentive to move that money by removing the breaks that were allegedly only in place to help spur growth.

* Hedge funds assets rose to $1.92 trillion in 2010, the highest ever, up from $1.18 trillion at the beginning of the year. Given a standard earnings formula of 2 percent of total assets plus 20 percent of the increase, hedge fund bosses stood to collect roughly $186 billion in personal income. An 80 percent tax on that income—less than the percentage rate on multimillionaires levied under the Eisenhower administration—would produce more than enough revenue to put all 50 states in the black. (It should be pointed out that the top hedge fund manager, John Paulson, had a personal net profit of more than $5 billion in 2010, while more than a dozen hedge fund bosses had personal incomes above $2 billion and many more took in over $1 billion).

Nope, I don't see why the wealthy are more responsible than the rest of us. We're either in this together, or we start cutting programs. Making your neighbor pay for something you want does not strike me as good although we all need to compromise in order to work together. My point is, who cares how much pie the other guy has so long as you have enough for yourself? Yes, I realize we don't have enough for our budgets. I get that. I'm saying that there are some reasons I support and some I do not. The one I do not support is complaining about how much the other guy makes and how unfair it is. Complaining about him being taxed less on the other hand is a very valid point.

My $.02 for what it's worth.
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_Eric

Re: Wisconsin in the news

Post by _Eric »

My point is, who cares how much pie the other guy has so long as you have enough for yourself?


I think the point to be made is that there is hardly enough pie to go around, especially when certain elite classes feel entitled to take as much pie as they can shovel into their mouths.

I don't see why they are more responsible than the rest of us just because they have more money.


I guess we see things differently. I don't view the accumulation of capital as some kind of holy process, nor do I view disparity as a necessity.
_asbestosman
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Re: Wisconsin in the news

Post by _asbestosman »

Eric wrote:I guess we see things differently. I don't view the accumulation of capital as some kind of holy process, nor do I view disparity as a necessity.

Uh, no. I can certainly find a holy mandate for me personally to help the poor. I'm just having a hard time finding the scripture which says I should force my rich neighbor to do it too. Religion aside, I still don't see why the rich should be more responsible than I am. I actually have more than enough for myself and am in fact willing to pay more taxes. I just want those taxes to be raised equally on me and the rich instead of just on the rich or just on me. I don't even think more taxes would hurt me very much so long as everyone else is taxed the same and we all have an equal amount less to bid for valuable resources like good schools for our kids, nice homes, etc.

Why isn't there enough pie to go around? Because we want more pie on our plates than we're willing to pay for. If we're all willing to equally pay for it with a tax hike (or removal of unfair and ineffective tax breaks), then I'm all for it. I'm just not going to point my jealous finger at the rich and think that I'm somehow being a great person. I don't admire envy--not even my own.
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Re: Wisconsin in the news

Post by _Eric »

asbestosman wrote:I'm just not going to point my jealous finger at the rich and think that I'm somehow being a great person. I don't admire envy--not even my own.


It's not about being jealous or envious at all.
_asbestosman
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Re: Wisconsin in the news

Post by _asbestosman »

Eric wrote:It's not about being jealous or envious at all.

I keep hearing about how CEOs make hundreds of times what workers make. To me that's jealousy. However, I did not see any comparisons to the common man in what you quoted, so I hope you are right.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy.
eritis sicut dii
I support NCMO
_Eric

Re: Wisconsin in the news

Post by _Eric »

asbestosman wrote:I keep hearing about how CEOs make hundreds of times what workers make.


I don't want to be a CEO. I want that disparity to end.
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Re: Wisconsin in the news

Post by _asbestosman »

Eric wrote:I want that disparity to end.

Because . . . ?
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy.
eritis sicut dii
I support NCMO
_Eric

Re: Wisconsin in the news

Post by _Eric »

asbestosman wrote:Because . . . ?


Because it hurts me to see so much unnecessary suffering.
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