Who is Wade Englund?

[_MrStakhanovite]

The serious problem one encounters here is that there is no way to demonstrate, as with so much of feminist theoretical critique, that the very psychological attributes in question that are assumed to be a function of social conditioning, are not in fact related to culture in a much more complex way, i.e., that intrinsic, underlying psychological differences inherent in female nature itself, are not primary in generating certain psychological features (a greater or more idiosyncratic concern with personal appearance) which are then absorbed by the culture and institutionalized in other cultural structures, such as media, art, literature, film, and advertising.

What we really have here, in other words, is a symbiotic relationship between inherent psychological attributes and culture, in which natural emphasis and deemphasis in interests, focus, and concentration between men and woman are reflected back and manifested in culture within its institutions and economic environment.

The quasi-Marxian post first wave feminist concept of "the Patriarchy" is not required to explain these phenomena.

It’s not about the pleasures of conformity and the importance of trends, it’s also a personal statement about the band itself!

[_EAllusion]

Let's quote Wade explaining why penis doesn't get him all twitterpated:

On the other hand, there is much about women that I find attractive (some very much so) to me as a man, though there are some things about women, like certain personality quirks, that I find repelling. To make matters worse, the gay men I am familiar with tend to embrace rather than eshew the things about women that I find repelling. So, not only are gay men sexually un-intersting or repelling to me, some of their personality and character traits are also repelling to me. And, no, two negatives in this case don't equal a positive. LOL

What personality characteristics of gay men is Wade talking about?

Well:

Overly dramatic, vane, gossipy, and catty.

They also tend to embrace the worst aspects of men: promiscuous, unfaithful, abusive, and self-centered.

Classy.

What's Wade's out here? Well, he did say he merely finds some their character traits repelling, as well he should if that is what gay men are like. So Wade might assert that he wasn't saying the mere fact that he ascribed a laundry list of awful stereotypes to gay men makes them repellant. He just finds those traits repelling, but is otherwise cool. So I'd have to modify my jab to say,

To make matters worse, the Jews I am familiar with tend to embrace rather than eschew the things about people that I find repelling. Some of the Jewish personality and character traits are just repelling to me. They tend to be greedy, power-mongers, arrogant, nebbish, miserly, etc.

Oh, I have had Jewish friends. Don't get all PC on me by calling my words offensive.

[_wenglund]

Oh...and I forgot to mention another unflattering characteristic of women, which is the tendency to blame men for their problems. :)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

And men do the same with women, so where does that leave us? LOL

According to Seinfeld, it leaves us with "make-up sex". But, that is clearly a patriarchal show, so it must be dismissed. :)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Droopy]

There are ways to study this Droopy. Such study isn't usually born of feminist theory, as they are lit crit types and not scientists. But this a fairly heavily studied area in psychology. I'd prefer not to get in it with you. Really, you need to take personality psych, psychometrics, and physio psych at a minimum to have this conversation, but there absolutely are all sorts of methodologies for teasing out biological sexual dimorphism from cultural influence and understanding the interaction of the two.

Leave the intellectual posturing and obfuscatory credentialism E and adduce an argument that we can look at for its logical cogency, semantic implications, and conceptual strength (I have, by the way, studied personality theory).

Loran:

What we really have here, in other words, is a symbiotic relationship between inherent psychological attributes and culture, in which natural emphasis and deemphasis in interests, focus, and concentration between men and woman are reflected back and manifested in culture within its institutions and economic environment.

Lol. I love how you flip from there being no way to tease out inherent psychological characteristics of women, if any, interacting with cultural mores to it definitely being a matter of inherent psychological attributes interacting with and driving the culture.

If you'll go back and read the post again, you'll see that I didn't "flip" logically anywhere. I said that there is no way do demonstrate the claimed causal connection between social conditioning mediated by "the patriarchy" and female psychological attributes regarding self image, and that the connection is likely more complex and symbiotic than the feminist ideological template assumes and argues, with both intrinsic psychological features and culture conditioning and reflecting each other.

No "patriarchy," - an ideological construct - is necessary as an explanatory framework.

[_wenglund]

What's Wade's out here? Well, he did say he merely finds some their character traits repelling, as well he should if that is what gay men are like. So Wade might assert that he wasn't saying the mere fact that he ascribed a laundry list of awful stereotypes to gay men makes them repellant. He just finds those traits repelling, but is otherwise cool. So I'd have to modify my jab to say,

To make matters worse, the Jews I am familiar with tend to embrace rather than eschew the things about people that I find repelling. Some of the Jewish personality and character traits are just repelling to me. They tend to be greedy, power-mongers, arrogant, nebbish, miserly, etc.

Oh, I have had Jewish friends. Don't get all PC on me by calling my words offensive.

You keep trying, but not surprisingly you still ends up with:



Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_sock puppet]

You keep trying, but not surprisingly you still ends up with:



Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Found a new avatar for Will Schryver, have you?

[_Droopy]

What personality characteristics of gay men is Wade talking about?

Could it be things like this?

[Gadianton]

If you'll go back and read the post again, you'll see that I didn't "flip" logically anywhere. I said that there is no way do demonstrate the claimed causal connection between social conditioning mediated by "the patriarchy" and female psychological attributes regarding self image, and that the connection is likely more complex and symbiotic than the feminist ideological template assumes and argues, with both intrinsic psychological features and culture conditioning and reflecting each other.

No "patriarchy," - an ideological construct - is necessary as an explanatory framework.

Save your breath, Droopy. EA is obviouisly a throw-back to the early 70's, and has been so demasculated by bad feminism as to mis-think homosexuality is sacrosanct and above criticism, and thus even the slightest expressed aversion to anything about them is deserving of the patented 70's response--contemptously dismiss it as BIGOTRY!! Hence, the straw man mantra s/he has been impotently repeating against me. As such, we can do ourselves a favor by paying her/his posts little or no mind.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Blixa]

What personality characteristics of gay men is Wade talking about?

Could it be things like this?

(Photo of the character Carmen Ghia in The Producers)

Yes, that is exactly what Wade is talking about: a fictional character who is an exaggerated parody of a stereotype! Good catch!

[_wenglund]

Yes, that is exactly what Wade is talking about: a fictional character who is an exaggerated parody of a stereotype! Good catch!

In other words, art immitating life--even if in an exagerated way. You may be on to something there, Blixa. [Thumbs up]

Thanks, -Wade Englund-