Poll: Should Stem stay or go?

[_stemelbow]

The irony here is I never said what you have quoted me here as saying. Can you provide a link to that quote?

I'm sorry, Fence Sitter. That was Fifth Columnist. I got ya mixed up. I'll correct the error.

[_Fence Sitter]

The irony here is I never said what you have quoted me here as saying. Can you provide a link to that quote?

I'm sorry, Fence Sitter. That was Fifth Columnist. I got ya mixed up. I'll correct the error.

I wonder if Fifth is as offended as I am complimented.

[_stemelbow]

says SP:

stem, where else will you get this much food for your Mormon persecution complex (and scoring brownie points with elohim for having endured it) if you do not stay posting on MDB?

Pretty silly, SP. I have no such complex, I assure you. I live a pretty healthy robust life, in spite of the fact that I've been subjected to silly complaints and personal critiques, quite often in favor of addressing my arguments or responses, over the years on these message boards. But you're right in that I don't think I'll easily find the silly, uncivil, personal hostilities that pepper so many MD posts elsewhere. I can always go back to CARM (the near equivalent. take a look and read around a bit you'll see) I guess. But of course the downfall of CARM is the moderating is far more biased than here, and LDS are banned for quoting scripture or linking professional papers. Its a little more silly. but the attitudes and content of the majority posters is about the same.

[_asbestosman]

Asbestosman says:

Don't deny yourself a chance to learn and interact just because others say they dislike your posts.

What, pray tell, do you have in mind regarding what I can learn? Quite curious. I suppose I could read the tedious seemingly pointless back and forth hostilities expressed in those Book of Abraham threads (which I have done) and could, in so doing, pick up a piece of information here or there that I had not considered, but the benefits are buried in the sea of costs. There are plenty of interactions in my life that go far beyond the shallow level of discussion most prominent here. I won’t be losing anything on that end either. While I appreciate the advice I find it lacking in substance. Its amounted to vague fluffy sounding words that in the end don’t really mean anything.

Well then, perhaps this place is pointless for you. I wasn't trying to give vague fluff.

I come here to learn how others view things including potential weaknesses in my own thoughts. I don't come here to learn facts or convince others of the truth. The things I learn about aren't just questions about doctrine or Mormonism, but include things like politics and human nature. Are the costs worth the benefits? Only you can decide. If your goal in participating here is to get others to back off of Daniel Peterson, show more respect for religion / Mormonism, or (more foolishly) to actually agree with apologetic responses then you are wasting your time and will only be frustrated. If you want to discover what critics think, this is one forum to do that. But you don't have to care what they think. I don't necessarily care what everyone thinks. Even if you don't care what they think, you can participate by means of parody and humor like The Nehor does.

This place is harsh. It's usually full of stupid, silly, and uncivil comments. It also has some brilliant, polite people. For example, have you interacted with California Kid? For a while we also had Don Bradley (maybe we still do?). We have some who are quite humorous. We have the bad and the good. We also have the in-between. There are many opportunities to interact with some great people here, but there is a heavy cost involved. Is it worth putting up with the trash? For most Mormons, it is not.

[_stemelbow]

Well then, perhaps this place is pointless for you. I wasn't trying to give vague fluff.

I come here to learn how others view things including potential weaknesses in my own thoughts. I don't come here to learn facts or convince others of the truth. The things I learn about aren't just questions about doctrine or Mormonism, but include things like politics and human nature. Are the costs worth the benefits? Only you can decide. If your goal in participating here is to get others to back off of Daniel Peterson, show more respect for religion / Mormonism, or (more foolishly) to actually agree with apologetic responses then you are wasting your time and will only be frustrated. If you want to discover what critics think, this is one forum to do that. But you don't have to care what they think. I don't necessarily care what everyone thinks. Even if you don't care what they think, you can participate by means of parody and humor like The Nehor does.

This place is harsh. It's usually full of stupid, silly, and uncivil comments. It also has some brilliant, polite people. For example, have you interacted with California Kid? For a while we also had Don Bradley (maybe we still do?). We have some who are quite humorous. We have the bad and the good. We also have the in-between. There are many opportunities to interact with some great people here, but there is a heavy cost involved. Is it worth putting up with the trash? For most Mormons, it is not.

Thank you, asbestos, you've given me some things to think about. that's all I ask for here.

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

O would some power the giftie gie us to see ourselves as others see us.
(O would some power the gift to give us to see ourselves as others see us.)

Robert Burns, Poem "To a Louse" - verse 8
Scottish national poet (1759 - 1796)

All I can say, Stem, is that if ever I feel that members of this board are ganging up on me, I will definitely consider the possibility that I'm the one who needs to change. Change my views, or simply change my presentation, it wouldn't matter, but it's a very real possibility that I am doing something wrong. Try something just for fun. Before firing off a response in writing, look within, maybe pray about it. What you are currently doing doesn't seem to be working for you.

[_selek]

I think its become apparent that many of you who have responded in this thread haven’t even paid one bit of attention to my posts. You all keep saying things that is quite contrary to my posts and to me in your efforts to describe me and put me down. If that doesn’t explain this place I really don’t know what does. Here’s a brief response to some of the posts offered here. I feel a little obligated.
Fifth Columnist says:

Back in the day, I too believed that the Church had to be true and everything else must be made to fit that conclusion.

Here’s a good example of someone who has responded to me a few times but has obviously not read my posts. Why respond if you don’t read my posts? Why offer criticisms and advice if you don’t have a clue? Again this pretty much explains this place. I appreciate your comments as a whole for what they are, but its quite obvious you don’t pay attention, or read with comprehension to that which you reply to…sadly. In truth I fear its more of a reaction ingrained in the folks here since it appears so pervasive—if an LDS posts here, unless he becomes quite obviously sympathetic to the critics every complaint, he/she only responds as I would have responded back in the day. And then I’m left with responses, like Fifth Columnist's above, to things that I don’t say, suggest, imply, or think.
Liz says:

If you have noticed, I have engaged you on a few more threads, and I have noticed that others have done the same.

I don’t believe you’ve ever engaged me. I have seen you whine about me, and complain about petty little misspellings instead of engaging, but certainly nothing close to engaging my arguments or ideas. But I have noticed you have declared you have put me on ignore and others should do the same. Don’t worry, I really didn’t believe you when you said you put me on ignore.
Asbestosman says:

Don't deny yourself a chance to learn and interact just because others say they dislike your posts.

What, pray tell, do you have in mind regarding what I can learn? Quite curious. I suppose I could read the tedious seemingly pointless back and forth hostilities expressed in those Book of Abraham threads (which I have done) and could, in so doing, pick up a piece of information here or there that I had not considered, but the benefits are buried in the sea of costs. There are plenty of interactions in my life that go far beyond the shallow level of discussion most prominent here. I won’t be losing anything on that end either. While I appreciate the advice I find it lacking in substance. Its amounted to vague fluffy sounding words that in the end don’t really mean anything.
Scratch:

I think he should stay. His behavior and posts reflect very poorly on LDS apologetics, and so in that sense, I think he's invaluable as a poster.

Perhaps your schtick will wear enough of these posters that you’ll have to reform you sour attitude in order to get what you want out of this—attention. Of course considering the adoration you receive for your hostilities that wish is most likely to not be realized. There will probably be a place where the defaming, libelous hostiles will feel welcome and loved.
Thews:
I don’t even know what to make of your posts—a rambling diatribe hatin’ on every one and thing. Most of the hostilities here are reserved for Mormonism and certain Mormons. Your hostilities seem directed at nearly everyone here and everything discussed. Peace to your heart.
Joseph:
I don’t think your fellow critics take you seriously as a person (which is not nice but that’s how they roll, you know). That seems to have been implied and inferred a few times. I suppose that means I should have no reason to take you seriously either. With that, thanks for commenting, at least.
PP:

I voted for you to stay because I want you to find happiness. If that is outside the church, I think this is a great place to start.

You seriously think staying here is going to help me find happiness. I’ve known many people over the years who have posted on various discussion boards. Many on the topic of Mormonism. I daresay many here seem to rank among the least happy individuals I have every encountered. If I stay it would be for these people.

I guess the sad reality that you face as a TBM is folks outside of the church will never see your point of view, especially here on this middle forum.

I think you say a lot here. Because I am LDS and care to defend, most of my comments will be ignored here, just because… It probably need not even be said. Anyway, I think the amount of twisting that occurs in responses in some silly hope to make me “the devil” is just hilarious. In this way this place is exactly like an evangelical board discussing the topic of Mormonism (which I have far more experience with). Its funny to this these die-hard hostile ex-LDS atheists are pretty much the same as evangelicals who are critical of LDS. That people here haven’t picked up on their own silliness says something, I’d say.
Dwight:

Just don't expect me to read or respond to anything you write. I've typically found it pretty worthless.

Why of course you find it worthless. Its just curious to me that someone (you) wishes to come here and whine about LDS, but when an LDS comes around no matter what is said you’ll find it worthless. I suppose you fit the attitude here to a “T”. No biggie…I just find the hostile atmosphere problematic for your guys’ own growth and development. Hopefully you get past it.
ShadowFax:

I still have a hard time believing that you don't understand the concepts of the degrees of glory/temple while being a mopologist on a board that could essentially be thought of as an exmo board. I wouldn't have the guts to go on this same type of a Jehovahs witness board as an apologist if I didn't know the central doctrines, even if I were a J.W.

I have no idea what you’re talking about. Of course I understand the concepts of the degrees of glory and the temple. It just so happens I wasn’t about to quibble about it in that thread, seeing as you seemed to misunderstand me at nearly every turn. I’m here, no doubt, representing what I feel is my religion. That does not mean my understanding of the religion has to comport with how you understood it, practiced it back in the day.

That said, I have to remind myself constantly that even when we (as in people in general) don't agree, our opinions are our own unique journey and that individuality in itself can be respected if nothing else. There must be something in this board for you or it's highly unlikely you'd be invovled in it. If nothing else I can use the opportunity of this kind of board interaction to accept and embrace each persons journey and maybe even learn to celebrate your particular stand, even though it's one I don't personally want.

I think your last line is a sweet one, one in which I’d agree with wholeheartedly. I’d remain here for that exact reason. I love people. I love diversity in people. This place gives me access to people I feel are unique and interesting. It just so happens when I interact with these folks I get very little besides personal derision and hostile complaints about me. So while I could still benefit in this regard, I’d find it difficult to stick around to get what seems like so little in return. I suppose I could make ti work though. We’ll see.
Zeezrom

Just think Stem - If you can handle this place, you can handle any of your future questioning relatives as they begin to read wivesofjosephsmith.org and mormonthink.com for the first time!

I’ve handled them all fine in the past. I really don’t’ think I need this place to help with that. Thanks for the thought though.
Honor:

Speaking of Shadowfax, you should read the quote below while keeping in mind that Stak was once a fan of Ayn Rand when he takes to passing judgement on you (the tie-in being Shadowfax is a horse in the LOTR) –

Don’t worry I seriously take no offense from Stak. The only argument I’ve seen from him is his effort to paint the LDS view of God has selfish because God had said, in the LDS view, that His entire purpose and effort is to help others succeed. It was, perhaps, the screwiest thing I’ve seen a critic resort to, in terms of pettiness, on this forum. It amounted to terrible logic and even worse behavior (arguing and whining about anything, as it turns out). I do wish him the best though.
Lucretia:

Who can blame the posters who have blocked you? Some very intelligent people have wasted hours of their time trying to help you, but you continue on your oblivious and tunnel-visioned way.

I wouldn't block you (or probably anyone, ever) and would never ask you to leave. I'll be sorry if you do leave, as a matter of fact. I enjoy reading different personalities on the board, even the astoundingly unself-aware.

So, leave or stay according to the dictates of your conscience and not according to the results of a poll. There are plenty of lurkers here, no doubt, who should be taken into account as well as those who have made it a point to respond to you.

One more thing, though, is that you really should try to not make everything about yourself. You aren't here defending your faith, you are defending nothing but your own ego, and it's tedious.

I should never make it about myself. But I don’t really do that…other posters have tried to make it about me. Why this thread? Because Stak and co wish me gone. I was just curious if others are on board. That’s not me making about me, but Stak and co making it about me. Other people’s complaints about me arise instead of arguing points. Why? I don’t care. But they make it about me. That you don’t see that only speaks to your heavy bias, which is cool by me. People are upset and biased here. I get that. I can enjoy that to some extent. I simply think they take it way too far when they tend to try to force an LDS poster out of here, like Stak and co, or turn every topic into ways to complain about me (special thanks to DJ on this one).
Ceeboo:

Clearly, MDB is not the best place if one is looking to share amongst people who believe/think exactly as they do (If one is seeking a board that offers a "safe zone" for a certain belief set, they do indeed exist)

for what it's worth, it is possible to gain perspective, knowledge, compassion, and understanding with people that you agree to disagree with. Respect and the extension of a friendly hand are the key ingredients that must be present for a rewarding exchange that can benefit all parties. (IMHO)

Its quite obvious you haven’t read any of my posts, or many more than 4 or 5, if this is your advice to me. Thanks for the effort to offer advice but its really not pertaining to me.

I realize that you have not had the most pleasant experience here thus far (Perhaps part of the struggles we all face while communicating via typing on the internet), but I believe if you would consider pausing, reflecting, measuring, and considering what others post before you respond, your time spent here would become much more valuable to you as well as those who spend their time reading your contrbuitions.

Everyone here would benefit from this advice, including yourself.

I am not sure why that is the case (I have my guesses) but I also think it is sad that there are so few Mormons that frequent this place.

You guys seriously can’t understand why LDS don’t post here, and when they do, they most often feel unwelcome and hated? I mean look at DCP’s contributions. He’s a smart guy. He’s studied this stuff perhaps more than any of the critic-posters here, but what does he get in return? Very little respect, tons of threads dedicated to whining about him, and a special poster whose lauded here for having a campaign dedicated to hoping DCP looks bad. It’s ridiculous stuff. That you guys (Ceeboo, and honor) don’t acknowledge this is just plain silly to me. There is very little outside of hostility for LDS people here. Does that mean I can’t find use here? No. I still can, ironically enough because of the hostilities.
Bluedream:

My own impression is that you are often in this unnecessary "fight or flight" mode while participating here. Why do you feel so personally responsible for absorbing every criticism of the church?

Since your premise has me categorically wrong, I can’t rightly answer your question.

The church shouldn't reflect on you, nor you on it. Lighten up :)

That’s actually MY point much of the time. Obviously you’ve not paid attention to my posts. Cool…but why offer advice and criticism if you’ve never read me? Seems silly, but quite apropos to how things work around here.
Jersey girl:

You know what, stem, either stand and deliver or go. But whatever you do, please avoid creating inane polls like this one.

I promise to never create another poll, even if the crusades to get me outta here increase, if I stay. No problem there. I figure I’d never be able to stand and deliver considering hostilities shown towards me from people like yourself. The biases are heavy and my efforts aren’t about to gain respect from anyone, let alone convince them of their silliness when silliness mounts.
KK:

I like stem well enough.

Ahh..if we all held to Kishkumen’s attitude expressed here this place would be heaven on earth. On this I have a few things to learn, no doubt.
Trevor,

Down with stem! Down with stem!

Where’d you get the pick in your avatar? My bro met the guy when he was out and about serving a mission. You know those types of stories.

Oh, for the love of Pete! Are you feeling unloved or misunderstood or something?

Talk about narcissistic. Do whatever you want. It's a damn discussion board! Seriously.

[_Kishkumen]

the problem is I don't' know why I'm still here. Once I figure that out my decision will be made.

Do you really feel the need to have a purpose? Why can't you just enjoy it?

[_asbestosman]

Why can't you just enjoy it?

The goddess suite isn't for everyone.

[_Kishkumen]

The goddess suite isn't for everyone.

Hopefully.