Who is Wade Englund?

[_beastie]

I think the misunderstanding is due Old Testament people drawing conclusions about Wade that aren't there. I have been in the same boat. We're both faithful LDS here defending the faith, even Mak as expressed the same frustration. Misunderstanding seems evident among those who keep characterizing me as someone I'm not. This is not my problem, it doesn't seem to be Wade's either. Sadly, its the atmosphere and hostilities that are the normal fare here. But we can change that. We can be better than that. We should. We should at least try.

Well, then, you can serve as the intermediary, the "translator" of Wade, if you will. He claims that words that he *clearly* did not say are being put in his mouth, and that he is being egregiously misunderstood. Please share specifics with us that demonstrate that he (and you) are correct, and the blame does not lie with Wade's communication style.

[_beastie]

For those uncomfortable with this thread about Wade, I have two comments. First, Wade seemed to welcome the attention. Second, Wade has a very, very, very long history of obnoxious behavior with exmormons. Yes, he periodically mouths platitudes about trying to "build bridges", but the bridges are usually flimsy cardboard.

In the time I've "known" Wade online he has:

1) repeatedly claimed that exmormons engage in frequent logical fallacies, and made a mocking website highlighting those logical fallacies

2) engaged in frequent personal attacks on ZLMB, to the point where he was chastised repeatedly by moderators. His response to moderators was usually that he was "mirroring" the bad behavior of critics. If I recall correctly, he was banned periodically and ordered to improve his behavior, which he did not seem able to do, and was hence, a constant thorn in moderator's sides (and that was exmormon AND LDS moderators)

3) created a fake "center" for studying sexual abnormality, of which he was the only member (despite referring to "we" on the website repeatedly). He lumped in homosexuality with pedophilia, necrophilia, and bestiality. He trolled gay boards and invited gay posters to visit his website, and expressed disappointment and confusion when they were deeply offended. He posted quite a bit during this period about abnormal sexuality (see "lock and key").

4) after dropping his logical fallacy bit, he repeatedly claimed that exmormons no longer believed due to psychological "issues", and repeatedly invited exmormons to allow him to "help" them by exploring their "issues."

This sounds like a short list, but these behaviors endured over a period of years. The idea that Wade can be so obsessed with the flaws of others, particularly gays and exmormons, and then be exempt from the type of analysis he wants to foist on others is unacceptable to me. He truly is one poster who deserves the negative attention he receives (and I realize that there are many others who don't).

[_EAllusion]

In the 70s, a gay man participated in an experiment that involved extreme operant conditioning. He was exposed to pornographic images women and heterosexual intercourse while the part of his brain responsible for positive reinforcement was stimulated.

Can you cite this study? I've never heard of it. I worked in a lab on the area of the brain most likely being referenced here and as a result feel fairly well-read in the lit. In fact, the only studies I'm aware of where such stimulation was being done on humans come from the 50's before it was shut down for ethical reasons. If this happened, I'm shocked I did not read about it.

[_Kevin Graham]

How nice...I am now being accused of being highly unethical and demanding that gays be straight, and this because I would simply advise gay men that it is in their interest, and within God's power, for them to rise above their demonstrably unhealthy inclinations and seek after healthy relations geared to eventuaqlly result in a fulness of love and joy. Amazing.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I would simply advise Mormons that it is in their interest, and within God's power, for them to rise above their demonstrably unhealthy inclinations and seek after healthy relations geared to eventually result in a fulness of love and joy.

Feeling offended yet?

[_stemelbow]

For those uncomfortable with this thread about Wade, I have two comments. First, Wade seemed to welcome the attention. Second, Wade has a very, very, very long history of obnoxious behavior with exmormons. Yes, he periodically mouths platitudes about trying to "build bridges", but the bridges are usually flimsy cardboard.

In the time I've "known" Wade online he has:

1) repeatedly claimed that exmormons engage in frequent logical fallacies, and made a mocking website highlighting those logical fallacies

Tons of ex Mormons have engaged in frequent fallacies. Its a fact. This whole place is a mockery of LDS, so why complain if Wade mocks others?

2) engaged in frequent personal attacks on ZLMB, to the point where he was chastised repeatedly by moderators. His response to moderators was usually that he was "mirroring" the bad behavior of critics. If I recall correctly, he was banned periodically and ordered to improve his behavior, which he did not seem able to do, and was hence, a constant thorn in moderator's sides (and that was exmormon AND LDS moderators)

Alright, so setting up threads focused on deriding the man is quite appropriate then. My goodness, do grudges never die? Do you not get the irony in your mirroring comment now? Suddenly you justify doing this because you are mirroring him. Whateves. You guys are adorable.

3) created a fake "center" for studying sexual abnormality, of which he was the only member (despite referring to "we" on the website repeatedly). He lumped in homosexuality with pedophilia, necrophilia, and bestiality. He trolled gay boards and invited gay posters to visit his website, and expressed disappointment and confusion when they were deeply offended. He posted quite a bit during this period about abnormal sexuality (see "lock and key").

Well that does sound silly.

4) after dropping his logical fallacy bit, he repeatedly claimed that exmormons no longer believed due to psychological "issues", and repeatedly invited exmormons to allow him to "help" them by exploring their "issues."

I suppose I'll take this as your effort to paint him worse than he is. Apparently in your eyes he's a monster. It makes your comments about him sound, well, exaggerated.

This sounds like a short list, but these behaviors endured over a period of years. The idea that Wade can be so obsessed with the flaws of others, particularly gays and exmormons, and then be exempt from the type of analysis he wants to foist on others is unacceptable to me. He truly is one poster who deserves the negative attention he receives (and I realize that there are many others who don't).

If him acting poorly to others is a reason to mock and deride the man, then we should have a thread set up to mock nearly every participant here by setting up a hostile hate-filled thread. Sound cool? Who should we start with?

[_stemelbow]

I would simply advise Mormons that it is in their interest, and within God's power, for them to rise above their demonstrably unhealthy inclinations and seek after healthy relations geared to eventually result in a fulness of love and joy.

Feeling offended yet?

No offense here. Sounds like good advice. We all tend to natural unhealthy inclinations.

[_Kevin Graham]

I would simply advise Mormons that it is in their interest, and within God's power, for them to rise above their demonstrably unhealthy inclinations and seek after healthy relations geared to eventually result in a fulness of love and joy.

Feeling offended yet?

No offense here. Sounds like good advice. We all tend to natural unhealthy inclinations.

Great, so give up Mormonism. There is just as much evidence that it is unhealthy as there is for being homosexual.

[_beastie]

by the way, Wade's old website and trolling on gay boards were discussed on this old thread, which has quotes from the gay boards:

http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3 ... a&start=21

For those not willing to click the link, here are a couple of Wade quotes that give you some idea of what was going on.

I am thinking about starting a Center for the study of Sexual
Attraction Disorders (SAD), where papers and discussions can be had as
to whether or not such a disorder exists, and if it does exist, what
evidence is there for its existence, what forms does it take (i.e.
homosexuality, pedaphilia, beastiality, necrophilia, etc.), how
prevelent is it, what may be its cause(s), can it be corrected, and if
so, how, etc.

Then lectured on civil discourse:

Productive civic dialogue is, in part, a function
of simply and accurately framing the issues. And,
the simple and accurate framing of issues is, in
part, a function of exacting and descriptive
terminology.
With these axioms in mind, may I suggest
abandoning the use of the relatively non-descript
terms like "gay" and "lesbian", and use instead
the more exacting and descriptive term "SAD",
which stands for Sexual Attraction Disorder.
Try it out and see if it doesn't help better
frame the issues and make civic dialogue more
productive.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-

And finally proclaimed:

I had hoped that we could keep the discussion on an intelligent level.
I am disappointed (though not suprised) that you were not capable of
doing so.

Bye. -Wade Englund-

Again, is this the best you have to offer in the way of a response?
Coming from community that decries bigotry and descrimination, your un-
called for ridicule of me, and your persistent requests that I leave,
certainly reach the hieghts of hypocrisy.

Thanks, -Wade-

This coming from the guy who wants to use "SAD" instead of gay or lesbian, and lumps in homosexuality with the most horrendous predatory sexual behavior imaginable, and then stamps his feet over the impossibility of "civil" discourse.

[_stemelbow]

Great, so give up Mormonism. There is just as much evidence that it is unhealthy as there is for being homosexual.

What are you talkign about? I might not hold the same views on homosexuality as Wade, surely not the way people have been characterizing Wade.

But I realize there are some things within Mormon culture that can be seen as unhealthy. I stay away from that junk. I work to refine myself...one day I'll be as refined as you perhaps.

[_beastie]

I suppose I'll take this as your effort to paint him worse than he is. Apparently in your eyes he's a monster. It makes your comments about him sound, well, exaggerated.

You clearly don't know Wade at all. There was no exaggeration in my comments. In fact, I forgot one episode: his determination to portray critics as bigots.

http://pacumenispages.yuku.com/topic/87 ... try?page=4

So are you going to "translate" Wade for me, so I can see where I've so egregiously misunderstood his words?