No Lion Remains in Israel: another one bites the dust

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_sock puppet
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Re: No Lion Remains in Israel: another one bites the dust

Post by _sock puppet »

stemelbow wrote:
Infymus wrote:The fact that either Ash or FARMS is talking about evidence or lack of evidence concerning horses in the Book of Mormon would have been enough to plant a seed in my mind back in 1992.

The more Mormons are driven to FAIR/FARMS the faster they will be out of the church.

I'm glad they both exist to bring these issues to the light of day.


The Mormon curtain seems kinda like a pointless venture now, huh?

FAIR/FARMS is a gateway 'drug' to the Mormon Curtain where the full panoply of truth about Mormonism may be found.
_stemelbow
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Re: No Lion Remains in Israel: another one bites the dust

Post by _stemelbow »

sock puppet wrote:FAIR/FARMS is a gateway 'drug' to the Mormon Curtain where the full panoply of truth about Mormonism may be found.


pep pep...sock puppet.
Love ya tons,
Stem


I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
_ShadowFax
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Re: No Lion Remains in Israel: another one bites the dust

Post by _ShadowFax »

stemelbow wrote:
Someone needs to alert Mike Ash and Wiki Wonka.


You're as good a candidate as any huh?



I nominate Stem for the job.
She seems to make an effort to focus her attention on posting any flaws from critics in the MDB, (usually behavioral) whether minor and warranted or unwarranted - usually the latter. It would only seem reasonable that she'd apply the same strict focus and attention on this major apologetics error.

Or is stem only a MDB parental type of behavioral policeman toward critics? It's not easy to get stem to identify or confront an apologist error in text or behavior, but no problem with the critic confrontations.
Oh well.

In any case, I won't hold my breath waiting for any of them to come forward and admit a mistake. That ole' ego is too busy defending its stance as right at any cost. Very little humility even from the nicest of apologists. They'll just ignore it - obeying Packers "ignore" program - as they are taught to do, and move on to focus on the next ridiculous response of defense which they liberally term as some bizarre type of proof or reason.
_Kishkumen
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Re: No Lion Remains in Israel: another one bites the dust

Post by _Kishkumen »

All I can say is that once again another LDS apologetic claim about the presence or absence of flora and/or fauna in some part of the world turns out to be completely erroneous. You would think these guys would start exercising more care in making such claims, but, if accurate and honest reporting does not help one's case, I guess it's understandable why one stops looking upon having found an affirming source.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_stemelbow
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Re: No Lion Remains in Israel: another one bites the dust

Post by _stemelbow »

ShadowFax wrote:I nominate Stem for the job.
She seems to make an effort to focus her attention on posting any flaws from critics in the MDB, (usually behavioral) whether minor and warranted or unwarranted - usually the latter. It would only seem reasonable that she'd apply the same strict focus and attention on this major apologetics error.

Or is stem only a MDB parental type of behavioral policeman toward critics? It's not easy to get stem to identify or confront an apologist error in text or behavior, but no problem with the critic confrontations.
Oh well.

In any case, I won't hold my breath waiting for any of them to come forward and admit a mistake. That ole' ego is too busy defending its stance as right at any cost. Very little humility even from the nicest of apologists. They'll just ignore it - obeying Packers "ignore" program - as they are taught to do, and move on to focus on the next ridiculous response of defense which they liberally term as some bizarre type of proof or reason.


Who forgot to send Shadowfox the memo: Stem's a dude.

Anyway, you make a good point, but don't forget, not only do egos get in the way of apologists admitting their error, they also ge tin the way of the critics to admit their errors. My goodness, half the arguments would be dried up to nothingness if both sides learned to admit their errors more readily.
Love ya tons,
Stem


I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
_Runtu
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Re: No Lion Remains in Israel: another one bites the dust

Post by _Runtu »

stemelbow wrote:Who forgot to send Shadowfox the memo: Stem's a dude.

Anyway, you make a good point, but don't forget, not only do egos get in the way of apologists admitting their error, they also ge tin the way of the critics to admit their errors. My goodness, half the arguments would be dried up to nothingness if both sides learned to admit their errors more readily.


Some people have a hard time admitting errors, though not everyone. I probably make mistakes all the time, though I can't think of any. ;-)
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_sock puppet
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Re: No Lion Remains in Israel: another one bites the dust

Post by _sock puppet »

stemelbow wrote:
sock puppet wrote:FAIR/FARMS is a gateway 'drug' to the Mormon Curtain where the full panoply of truth about Mormonism may be found.


pep pep...sock puppet.

Hey, get your nose out of there!
_CaliforniaKid
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Re: No Lion Remains in Israel: another one bites the dust

Post by _CaliforniaKid »

Here's what I wrote a while back about Hun horse bones:

Hun Horse Bones and Book of Mormon Horses

Book of Mormon defender Mike Ash recently repeated the old argument that even though we know that the Huns had plenty of horses, "not a single usable horse bone has been found in the territory of the whole empire of the Huns. Based on the fact that other--once thriving--animals have disappeared (often with very little trace), it is not unreasonable to suggest that the same thing might have happened with the Nephite 'horse.'"

Ash's claim about Hun horse bones is unfortunately not accurate. Here and here are books that refer casually to Hun horse bone evidence. Here is a report on a Hun horse find in Mongolia in 1990.

Ash's example is also problematic because bone evidence is not the only evidence we would expect to find in Mesoamerica if horses had been domesticated there. There have been a large number of human cultural artifacts relating to horses found in Hunnic lands. There are a great many saddles, harnesses, and whips in their burials and funeral offerings, for example. In fact, wherever horses have been domesticated, they have always left their mark on art and material culture. That is because horses gave a tremendous military and economic advantage to the civilizations that mastered them. Yet in Mesoamerica, although we have a great deal of art, including vast numbers of animal representations, horses are not depicted. We find no saddles, no bridles, and no chariot wheels.

Additionally, it should be noted that some historians have called into question how many horses the Huns actually brought with them into Europe. The climate and food supplies in Eastern Europe were not as well-suited to large numbers of horses as the Asian steppes. According to the Encyclopedia Brittanica,

[Attila's] Huns had become a sedentary nation and were no longer the horse nomads of the earlier days. The Great Hungarian Plain did not offer as much room as the steppes of Asia for grazing horses, and the Huns were forced to develop an infantry to supplement their now much smaller cavalry. As one leading authority has recently said, "When the Huns first appeared on the steppe north of the Black Sea, they were nomads and most of them may have been mounted warriors. In Europe, however, they could graze only a fraction of their former horse power, and their chiefs soon fielded armies which resembled the sedentary forces of Rome."


So, if there is less evidence of Hun horses during this period in Europe than we would expect, it may well be because the Huns of the region actually did not have as large a number of horses as commonly thought. Indeed, one source suggests that Europe's Great Hungarian plain could have supported no more than 20,000.

And finally, it's worth adding that the period of Hun rule was quite short compared to the several-thousand-year lacuna of horse evidence in the Americas from the generally-accepted Paleolithic extinction date to the time of alleged domestication by Book of Mormon peoples. Even if the Hun period had been a true lacuna-- which it is not-- it wouldn't really have been comparable to the situation in the Americas.
_ShadowFax
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Re: No Lion Remains in Israel: another one bites the dust

Post by _ShadowFax »

stemelbow wrote:
Who forgot to send Shadowfox the memo: Stem's a dude.

Anyway, you make a good point, but don't forget, not only do egos get in the way of apologists admitting their error, they also ge tin the way of the critics to admit their errors. My goodness, half the arguments would be dried up to nothingness if both sides learned to admit their errors more readily.


I said 'she' in fun. Now don't go all behavioral police on me!
:D


[l]as to the above highlighted and colored blue comment:

I rarely come across a critics stance that was wrong in its main premise. Half the arguments wouldn't be dried up if critics accepted their errors because there are so few of them, yet there will always be the ever-present apologetic errors which originiated from mormonisms inception and is carried on today by aplogists as yourself. Those errors are there whether a critic points them out or not. They wouldn't dry up to nothingness, they'd still be there. If an ostrich sticks its head in the sand does its environment really disappear?

Some critics have opinions based on many factors which can't be classified as wrong, therefore how can you ask them to admit to something that isn't wrong? For their opinions to be wrong the church issues would have to be true. Especially when apologists or GA's information is very informed based on the prophetic truth claims of Mormonism.
However, the LDS have prophetic backing and texts, not to mention missionaries paying a shwack of money, to say that their doctrine is prophet-God based correct and true - and the only true church on the earth plus a prophet to tell the real truth to boot.

we have quite a comedy of errors when we see the mopologists disagree with, or find some type of excuse to twist, the prophet stances on specific doctrines and held beliefs. Think Book of Mormon issues, Book of Abraham issues, church history past and current issues, etc., etc., etc.
Critics don't have that kind of befuddling problem to admit to. Critics aren't the ones fabricating or defending any wild claims. They are stating opinions based on known science. I can't ever say, "I'm sorry, I made an error, the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham really is true. Joseph Smith really did get prophetic insights on this and on polygamy."
Any other small error from a critic would be considered you grasping at straws on possible critic errors or comments that doesn't change the fact that it's not true.
Get it?

Your highlighted comment doesn't make any sense.
It's okay, I've come to expect that from you and many other mopologists.

cheers!
_Kishkumen
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Re: No Lion Remains in Israel: another one bites the dust

Post by _Kishkumen »

CK has pwn3d the apologists yet again. Ouch!
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
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