Simon Southerton wrote:Stemelbow's argument is with Ugo Perego.
Dr. Southerton, have you had a chance to review Ugo's latest FARMS piece from 2010? It can be found here:
http://maxwellinstitute.BYU.edu/publica ... m=1&id=796Ugo reaches the following conclusions:
Ugo Perego wrote:The Book of Mormon is not a volume about the history and origins of all American Indians. A careful reading of the text clearly indicates that the people described in the Book of Mormon were limited in the recording of their history to events that had religious relevance and that occurred in relatively close proximity to the keepers of the annals.
The fact that the DNA of Lehi and his party has not been detected in modern Native American populations does not demonstrate that this group of people never existed, nor that the Book of Mormon cannot be historical in nature. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Further, the very idea of locating the genetic signature of Lehi's family in modern populations constitutes a truly untestable hypothesis since it is not possible to know the nature of their genetic profiles. Without our knowing the genetic signature to be located, any attempt at researching it will unavoidably result in further assumptions and untestable hypotheses. What were the characteristics of Lehi's DNA and the DNA of those who went along with him? What haplogroup(s) did they belong to? We will never know. Yet this key point seems lost on those who insist on using genetic evidence as a means to validate or reject the Book of Mormon as a historical narrative. Attempting to make such conclusions is a miscarriage of logic comparable to collecting and analyzing the DNA of thousands of people living in the area surrounding a hypothetical crime scene from which no DNA could be retrieved from the individual who committed the crime, thus creating a comprehensive database of all these people. Will the database include the DNA signature of the criminal? If so, how could the perpetrator be identified among the thousands of others? Similarly, would a database composed of thousands of Native American DNA samples provide the necessary evidence to validate the existence of a small group (perhaps as few as two mtDNA haplotypes) that migrated from the Old World and settled somewhere in the Americas? Conversely, could haplogroup X be undoubtedly inferred as the ultimate proof of the genetic legacy this group left, without ever knowing their actual original DNA signature? Mitochondrial DNA is a powerful tool in reconstructing the history of our race, as demonstrated by the numerous publications that have been produced over the past two and a half decades. However, as has been amply demonstrated, knowing a great deal about the genetic composition of modern-day Native American populations does not give conclusive evidence of the validity or the implausibility of the Book of Mormon's historicity.
An additional caveat is the lack of professional training in population genetics by those promoting a supposed discrepancy between the genetic evidence and the Book of Mormon account. Some of them claim that their conclusions are strongly supported by trained experts who have been consulted for unbiased opinions about this particular matter.67 This should raise some concerns, though, since it is fairly obvious that most people outside of the circle of Mormonism have very limited knowledge of the Book of Mormon and its contents. As a further counterpoint to the critics' arguments, these experts seem to be in agreement that DNA lineages from a small Old World group migrating to an already heavily populated American continent would disappear.68 Moreover, it is also noteworthy that what these scientists know about what "Mormons believe" has been provided mainly as one-sided background information from the critics themselves. To offer a personal anecdote, my scientist colleagues have asked me about DNA evidence and the Book of Mormon on several occasions. I respond with a simple summary in which I explain that the DNA lineages of Lehi's colony could have been lost due to genetic drift since the number of people involved was probably fairly small compared to the size of the resident Amerindian population. I also explain that it is not possible to distinguish those lineages from post-Columbian admixture, simply because 2,600 years is not enough time for Book of Mormon mtDNA to differentiate Lehi's descendants from their Eurasian counterparts. My colleagues typically reply that they are not convinced that I have accurately represented what Latter-day Saints believe—namely, that Lehi's posterity comprises all Native Americans. These personal experiences give context for evaluating "genuine experts' opinions," based as they are on what the critics may have shared as background information regarding the Book of Mormon and Latter-day Saint beliefs. Ultimately, the critics' arguments hold up only when they prescribe what it is that Latter-day Saints believe. Since neither the Book of Mormon nor church doctrine indicates that all Native Americans descend from the Book of Mormon people, the critics' arguments are on a weak footing at the outset.
In light of the information provided in this essay, it should be evident that the work of reconstructing the history of Native American populations using molecular data is still under way. Some questions can be answered while many more remain, spurring further research. The genetic evidence of the peopling of the Americas is not fully understood, and it has evolved substantially over the past two decades. DNA research, and particularly mtDNA data, has been produced in great abundance during this time period and has provided an initial glimpse into the history and prehistory of the indigenous peoples of the Western Hemisphere. This is truly an exciting time to study the genetic history of Native Americans, for there is much yet to be understood. For example, how is the high frequency of haplogroup B in Southeast Asia and western South America reconciled with its rarity in the native populations of north Siberia and Alaska? The scarcity of archaeological evidence for human settlements on either side of the Bering Strait provides a degree of intrigue, considering that mainstream scientists currently accept Beringia as the likely refugium for Paleo-Indians during the last ice age, leaving open the possibility for alternative routes into the Americas.69 Mitochondrial DNA is doubtless a powerful tool that can reveal details about the expansion processes leading to the colonization of the world, including America's double continent. However, it is not well suited as the ultimate tool to assess the historicity of religious documents like the Book of Mormon and the Bible. If the DNA of Lehi and his family cannot be confidently detected in the modern Amerindian population, does it mean that they never existed? The principles underlying this question can be further extrapolated to other religious scenarios. Can we use DNA to decisively prove that the great biblical patriarchs—Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob—ever existed? What were their own and their descendants' mtDNA haplotypes? What about the other great Old Testament figures, such as Joseph of Egypt, Moses, and Isaiah? Can we use DNA analysis to prove that Jesus Christ lived? The New Testament mentions that Jesus had brothers and sisters (Matthew 13:55–56; Mark 6:3) through whom Mary's mtDNA could have been transmitted to future generations (and if not through Mary, perhaps through some of her female relatives). Where is their DNA in today's population? Would it be acceptable to conclude that these are fictional historical figures and the biblical text a hoax because of the lack of genetic evidence? As I already commented on another occasion: "I find no difficulties in reconciling my scientific passion about Native American history with my religious beliefs. I am not looking for a personal testimony of the Book of Mormon in the double helix. The scientific method and the test of faith are two strongly connected dimensions of my existence, working synergistically in providing greater understanding, knowledge, and from time to time even a glimpse into God's eternal mysteries."70 Anyone using DNA to ascertain the accuracy of historical events of a religious nature—which require instead a component of faith—will be sorely disappointed. DNA studies will continue to assist in reconstructing the history of Native American and other populations, but it is through faith that we are asked to search for truth in holy writings (Moroni 10:3–5).71
Ugo Perego seems to make the following arguments:
1. We don't know, and can't know, the DNA profile of Lehi and his party or of the other groups that traveled to the Americas such as the Mulekites (presumably the Jaredites were all killed so they don't matter). Since we don't know what their DNA looked like, it is impossible for us to detect it.
2. The DNA profile of Lehi's colony was probably lost due to genetic drift since they were assimilated into a huge population of natives.
3. Searching for the DNA of Lehi's colony is similar in scope to searching for the DNA of the ancient patriarchs or Jesus.
I should note that Perego is only talking about mtDNA. I don't know if his conclusions hold for other types of DNA. Perhaps you could comment about that.
Here is my response to Perego's arguments. The third one is completely ridiculous. Looking for Abraham's or Jesus' DNA is not even close to being analogous to looking for the DNA of one population transplanted to another continent. Abraham and Jesus lived and died in the same general genetic population in which they were born. Lehi and his colony did not.
Perego's first argument also seems a real stretch. He seems to be saying that we cannot exclude the possibility that Lehi and his colony had the same genetic profile that is found in native Americans. That's a tough argument to buy since Lehi and his colony and the Mulekites both originated in the middle east where the genetic population had certain characteristics. It would be extremely unlikely for Lehi and his colony and the Mulekites to have the same genetic profile as a parallel population on a separate continent. Nice try, but no.
Perego's second argument may have some legs from what I can tell. However, it still suffers from the fact that it requires reinterpreting 150 years worth of prophetic statements that the Nephites were much more substantial than Perego's argument requires. Oh well, it's not like this is the first time an apologist has thrown past prophets under the bus for the greater good.