Will Schryver's Benefactor

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Who is Schryver's Likely Benefactor?

 
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_Kishkumen
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Re: Will Schryver's Benefactor

Post by _Kishkumen »

Will Schryver wrote:By the way, I've yet to perceive a sense of plaintive lamentation ("plangent") in any of your inquiries. ("You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.")


Which online dictionary gave that to you as the first definition of that word, Will?
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Will Schryver
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Re: Will Schryver's Benefactor

Post by _Will Schryver »

Kishkumen wrote:
Will Schryver wrote:By the way, I've yet to perceive a sense of plaintive lamentation ("plangent") in any of your inquiries. ("You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.")


Which online dictionary gave that to you as the first definition of that word, Will?

Didn't have to consult one in this case--although I will frankly acknowledge that the advent of good online dictionaries is one of the greatest things about the internet.

Anyway, I thought you were versed in Latin?

I've been brushing up on my Italian lately, since my wife and 18-year-old daughter and I will be traveling there for two weeks in June. In Italian, the verb "to weep" is "piangere," which derives directly from the old Latin word "plangere," which, if I recall correctly, means "to lament." Our English word "plaintive" also derives from the same root.

The general sense of the word is revealed in its online definitions as given by Merriam/Webster:

plangent

1: having a loud reverberating sound <a plangent roar>

2: having an expressive and especially plaintive quality <plangent lyrics>

Examples of PLANGENT:

<a plangent, haunting song about a long-ago love>

<plangent organ music filled the church>

I have never personally encountered the word used in the same sense the good Doctor Scratch seems to want to employ it. Nevertheless, I do not begrudge him his fondness for it. At least it's one he consistently spells correctly.
I thought myself the wiser to have viewed the evidence left of such a great demise. I followed every step. But the only thing I ever learned before the journey's end was there was nothing there to learn, only something to forget.
_Kishkumen
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Re: Will Schryver's Benefactor

Post by _Kishkumen »

Will Schryver wrote:I have never personally encountered the word used in the same sense the good Doctor Scratch seems to want to employ it. Nevertheless, I do not begrudge him his fondness for it. At least it's one he consistently spells correctly.


If his usage is a little outside of the norm, it nevertheless seems to fit within the range of the first definition you quoted from the online dictionary entry, at least figuratively. I don't see anything wrong with that. I am not sure why you do.

Are you trying to tell us that your understanding of the English language and its usage is somehow normative, and that all those who use words a little differently from you are ignorant? As far as I have been able to gather, Doctor Scratch is at least as much, and probably more, educated than you are. Not that it surprises me to see you vaunting your intellectual superiority in circumstances in which a wiser person would be less eager to criticize.

Well, Doctor Scratch, it seems that the master literatus, Will Schryver, has concluded that your use of "plangent" does not pass the Schryver smell test for English usage. He is basing his determination on no less an authority than his personal experience as a computer programmer from southern Utah and a Latin dictionary (Heaven knows that this is determinative for modern English usage). I guess the jig is up!

Now, Will, go and lovingly craft a lengthy response in affected prose with some quotes from Shakespeare or Captain Beefheart and references to wild orgies to put all us snotty "Peee H. Deees" in our place. And thanks for the laughs.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Kishkumen
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Re: Will Schryver's Benefactor

Post by _Kishkumen »

Will Schryver wrote:In Italian, the verb "to weep" is "piangere," which derives directly from the old Latin word "plangere," which, if I recall correctly, means "to lament." Our English word "plaintive" also derives from the same root.


I should frame this, with proper attribution of course! ROFLMAO!!!
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Will Schryver
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Re: Will Schryver's Benefactor

Post by _Will Schryver »

Kishkumen wrote:
Will Schryver wrote:In Italian, the verb "to weep" is "piangere," which derives directly from the old Latin word "plangere," which, if I recall correctly, means "to lament." Our English word "plaintive" also derives from the same root.


I should frame this, with proper attribution of course! ROFLMAO!!!

I take it you disagree in some way with my analysis of the origin of "plangent." Feel free, then, to elaborate. I'm always up for having my mind expanded by superior knowledge.

Perhaps you disagree that "plangere" is Latin? Or that it is the origin of the same now-archaic word "plangere" in Italian, which is "to weep." Or that "piangere" is the verb "to weep" in Italian? Or that our English word "plaintive" does not derive from the same word?

Please teach me, dear professor.
I thought myself the wiser to have viewed the evidence left of such a great demise. I followed every step. But the only thing I ever learned before the journey's end was there was nothing there to learn, only something to forget.
_Kishkumen
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Re: Will Schryver's Benefactor

Post by _Kishkumen »

Will Schryver wrote:I take it you disagree in some way with my analysis of the origin of "plangent." Feel free, then, to elaborate. I'm always up for having my mind expanded by superior knowledge.

Perhaps you disagree that "plangere" is Latin? Or that it is the origin of the same now-archaic word "plangere" in Italian, which is "to weep." Or that "piangere" is the verb "to weep" in Italian? Or that our English word "plaintive" does not derive from the same word?

Please teach me, dear professor.


Here's a free lesson, Will. I offer it because you seem to have some aspirations, albeit temporary, to move in academic circles. Maybe these aspirations go no further than Mormon apologetics, I don't know. If they don't, you are probably safe. If they do, then this will save you minor embarrassment. In the end, I don't suppose it is such a big deal. It should, however, suggest to you the wisdom of being less quick to point out the linguistic errors of others, especially when those others have a little education under their belts.

Your little lecture on "plangent" was the kind of ham-handed pedantry that looks so jaw-droppingly affected and pompous that no self-respecting scholar, let alone academic, would engage in it. Oh, I suppose the "peeps" in rural Utah would be impressed, and I will say that I saw more of this kind of old-school prancing about at BYU, where religion teachers love to play "scholar," but the difference between someone who really knows their stuff and feels confident about it, and what you just did, is vast.

(I once had a classmate who used to brag that he could read the Book of Mormon in multiple languages to impress ignorant kids in his seminary class. I watched him brazenly read from a published translation in class through an entire semester of Herodotus. LOL!)

Now, what Doctor Scratch is doing with the word "plangent" is something that I have seen a number of scholars do. In its own way it is probably just as silly, but it is less noticeably affected (at least in the eyes of a fellow academic) than what you are doing. Scratch loves the word. He feels comfortable enough with his grasp of literature and the language to risk an out-of-the-way usage. Maybe he came across it in a favorite novel, or a beloved mentor used it that way. I don't know. When he does it, however, I recognize him as one of my people.

You should realize that in teasing you I am not challenging your intelligence or knowledge. I am ribbing you for trying to elbow your way into the academic club with a measure of clumsiness and noticeable insecurity. Hey, Will, I get that you are a smart guy. I am sorry others tease you relentlessly and dismiss you (admittedly, I have done it too). Many of the people who do are on no better ground than you when it comes to formal training and credentials. All of you look awkward as you fight with each other for title "king of the amateur scholar hill." I find it somewhat amusing; although, in another way, I am excited to see you guys getting involved.

Anyway, to cut to the chase, only buffoons use the phrase "the old Latin" anymore. I get the utility of the distinction, especially when the Vatican still updates its Latin lexicon, but, really, almost no academic younger than seventy would say that. In your lecture, that was the most striking gaffe.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Buffalo
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Re: Will Schryver's Benefactor

Post by _Buffalo »

Will Schryver wrote:I take it you disagree in some way with my analysis of the origin of "plangent." Feel free, then, to elaborate. I'm always up for having my mind expanded by superior knowledge.

Perhaps you disagree that "plangere" is Latin? Or that it is the origin of the same now-archaic word "plangere" in Italian, which is "to weep." Or that "piangere" is the verb "to weep" in Italian? Or that our English word "plaintive" does not derive from the same word?

Please teach me, dear professor.


You seem to switch back and forth a lot between two voices - insufferable pedant (as above) and vulgar scatologist (more frequently). How do you decide which voice to use on any given post?
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Will Schryver
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Re: Will Schryver's Benefactor

Post by _Will Schryver »

Kishkumen wrote:
Will Schryver wrote:I take it you disagree in some way with my analysis of the origin of "plangent." Feel free, then, to elaborate. I'm always up for having my mind expanded by superior knowledge.

Perhaps you disagree that "plangere" is Latin? Or that it is the origin of the same now-archaic word "plangere" in Italian, which is "to weep." Or that "piangere" is the verb "to weep" in Italian? Or that our English word "plaintive" does not derive from the same word?

Please teach me, dear professor.


Here's a free lesson, Will. I offer it because you seem to have some aspirations, albeit temporary, to move in academic circles. Maybe these aspirations go no further than Mormon apologetics, I don't know. If they don't, you are probably safe. If they do, then this will save you minor embarrassment. In the end, I don't suppose it is such a big deal. It should, however, suggest to you the wisdom of being less quick to point out the linguistic errors of others, especially when those others have a little education under their belts.

Your little lecture on "plangent" was the kind of ham-handed pedantry that looks so jaw-droppingly affected and pompous that no self-respecting scholar, let alone academic, would engage in it. Oh, I suppose the "peeps" in rural Utah would be impressed, and I will say that I saw more of this kind of old-school prancing about at BYU, where religion teachers love to play "scholar," but the difference between someone who really knows their stuff and feels confident about it, and what you just did, is vast.

(I once had a classmate who used to brag that he could read the Book of Mormon in multiple languages to impress ignorant kids in his seminary class. I watched him brazenly read from a published translation in class through an entire semester of Herodotus. LOL!)

Now, what Doctor Scratch is doing with the word "plangent" is something that I have seen a number of scholars do. In its own way it is probably just as silly, but it is less noticeably affected (at least in the eyes of a fellow academic) than what you are doing. Scratch loves the word. He feels comfortable enough with his grasp of literature and the language to risk an out-of-the-way usage. Maybe he came across it in a favorite novel, or a beloved mentor used it that way. I don't know. When he does it, however, I recognize him as one of my people.

You should realize that in teasing you I am not challenging your intelligence or knowledge. I am ribbing you for trying to elbow your way into the academic club with a measure of clumsiness and noticeable insecurity. Hey, Will, I get that you are a smart guy. I am sorry others tease you relentlessly and dismiss you (admittedly, I have done it too). Many of the people who do are on no better ground than you when it comes to formal training and credentials. All of you look awkward as you fight with each other for title "king of the amateur scholar hill." I find it somewhat amusing; although, in another way, I am excited to see you guys getting involved.

Anyway, to cut to the chase, only buffoons use the phrase "the old Latin" anymore. I get the utility of the distinction, especially when the Vatican still updates its Latin lexicon, but, really, almost no academic younger than seventy would say that. In your lecture, that was the most striking gaffe.

Translation: My analysis of the word "plangent" is correct, and Doctor Scratch's use of it is, if not patently incorrect, at least idiosyncratic.

Thank you.
I thought myself the wiser to have viewed the evidence left of such a great demise. I followed every step. But the only thing I ever learned before the journey's end was there was nothing there to learn, only something to forget.
_Kishkumen
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Will Schryver's Benefactor

Post by _Kishkumen »

Will Schryver wrote:Translation: My analysis of the word "plangent" is correct, and Doctor Scratch's use of it is, if not patently incorrect, at least idiosyncratic.

Thank you.


LOL. Whatever, Will. What an ego. I guess you are at least consistent.

Yes, his usage is somewhat idiosyncratic. I would not call it incorrect, unless, like you, I were hellbent on being a complete pedant.

You're welcome.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: Will Schryver's Benefactor

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Will Schryver wrote:
Doctor Scratch wrote:... it really comes as no surprise that Will has essentially cribbed most of his theories from other apologists/scholars.

Explaining, of course, why my FAIR conference paper was regarded as so unexpectedly innovative by so many of the apologists/scholars whose theories/findings I shamelessly stole.


Did you steal the ideas from apologists? Or from critics? And CFR that the people from whom you stole the work "regarded [it] as...innovative."

The after-the-fact outrage from these people--on account of my having plagiarized their work--has been downright deafening.


If you're needed to serve as a "fall guy," this kind of makes sense, doesn't it?
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
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