Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

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_Silver Hammer
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

Post by _Silver Hammer »

RockSlider wrote:
Silver Hammer wrote:"Rockslider" said that "LifeonaPlate" was well respected by critics and apologists alike. I have no reason to doubt that, but I still don't know who "LifeonaPlate" is.


Ah sure you do William, he's one of those towards the top of your 5th list

I don't understand. What does this mean? Please explain. What list are you talking about?
_Silver Hammer
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

Post by _Silver Hammer »

beastie wrote:
Silver Hammer wrote:Cksalmon said: “You're not tracking with his point. While William Schryver names no individual members of the group designated as a "small circle of otherwise respected academics," he claims that group's joint approval.”

This is not correct. In the quote that was given, Schryver says that a certain person is “somewhat famous” among an unnamed “small circle of otherwise respected academics.”

He says nothing that would suggest this group of academics approves of anything at all. The statement says no more or less than what it says: that because of a description Schryver made of her, this person is “somewhat famous” among a small group of people.

I must admit that I am becoming more and more intrigued by the fact that EVERYONE who has conversed with me so far on this topic is doing the EXACT SAME THING: quote a statement from Schryver, insist it says something it doesn’t, then get defensive and offended when the illogic of their unwarranted inferences is noted. I did not expect to see what I am seeing.


I must admit that I am becoming more and more intrigued by the notion that someone who knows none of these "interesting" characters would become involved in this thread.

My goodness, who is this LoaP? I know not these people!! lol
Why are you saying these things? How COULD I possibly know the identity of anonymous blog posters on a message board I knew nothing about until a fewdays ago? I know who Will Schryver is. I know of Doctor Scratch by reputation only. I have never heard of any of the rest of you. I’m sorry if you are offended by that.
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Silver Hammer wrote:Doctor Scratch quotes Will Schryver as saying: “I will be in the MI offices again tomorrow. I have no doubt there will be some brief and amused discussion concerning this latest in a long, long string of coordinated attacks on me. It has become a species of comic relief, in a way.”

He then says: “So, at the very least, Silver Hammer, I think you can agree that Will is saying here that the people at the Neal A. Maxwell Institute: (a) are aware of what he does here, and (b) find it (or reactions thereto) "amusing."”

Actually, the statement links the “brief and amused discussion” to “a long, long string of coordinated attacks” on Mr. Schryver. It’s talking about the “coordinated attacks” and says nothing about the amusement being related to anything Schryver himself has said on message boards.


Yes, that's correct. And this "latest...in the attacks" happens to be based on a long, long, thoroughly cited and cross-checked, indefatigably documented string of misogynistic behavior on the part of William Schryver. So, this seems to mean that the MI people find criticism of this nature "amusing."

But as CK points out (quite aptly) you could simply pose your questions to Will himself. (Though I cheerfully predict that you won't.)

It would be illogical to infer that “the people at the Neal A. Maxwell Institute: (a) are aware of what he does here,


No, not really. We know for certain that Daniel C. Peterson is "aware of what he does here."

and (b) find it (or reactions thereto) "amusing."”


Will is clearly saying that they find *something* amusing, and that this "something" pertains directly and specifically to the content and nature of this thread.

Just because someone is aware of “A,” and might find “A” amusing, does not mean that they are aware of “B” or “C” and find them amusing as well.


"A" in this case is the criticism of Will's misogynist behavior. I guess you could argue that the MI apologists merely think that the criticism / "attacks" are amusing---i.e., that Will is essentially lying to them, saying something along the lines of, "Hey, the people at the GSTP are attacking me," and that they're responding with knee-slapping mirth over this vague, unaccountable, and specifics-free comment. Is that what you're assuming?

You are extending the statement to cover things it does not include.

My point is that Schryver appears to be intentionally ambiguous about what he says, and that you and others here are inclined to represent those things according to what YOU believe he really means.


There are a finite number of things that he can mean. I agree that he's been "ambiguous" in so far as he hasn't named any names. But he has clearly said that the MI apologists find "amusing" the things that have happened to him here. And the latest thing that has happened to him here is an extremely thorough and well-documented account of his misogynist behavior. (Which, by the way, you seem to have a neutral attitude towards.)
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_beastie
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

Post by _beastie »

Silver Hammer wrote:Why are you saying these things? How COULD I possibly know the identity of anonymous blog posters on a message board I knew nothing about until a fewdays ago? I know who Will Schryver is. I know of Doctor Scratch by reputation only. I have never heard of any of the rest of you. I’m sorry if you are offended by that.


I'm not offended at all. Just amused.

I just have a hard time accepting that someone who knows none of these characters would suddenly happen upon this board and take an interest in this particular topic.
Last edited by Tator on Wed May 04, 2011 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

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_RockSlider
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

Post by _RockSlider »

In a different thread, I wrote a bit about my younger years. During my high school days (in SLC valley) the C word was very commonly used. You know like youth of today might say "that’s sick", well in our day, it was that’s "bitching" In a similar sense of regular/common usage of a word to in a particular time, the C word was common in my high school in the 70's.

Of course this may have been a very localized thing in SLC or in in my HS. But I do believe William is about my age and well might have seen this word used regularly during it's "fade" days as I saw it in my life.
_cksalmon
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

Post by _cksalmon »

Silver Hammer wrote:This is not correct. In the quote that was given, Schryver says that a certain person is “somewhat famous” among an unnamed “small circle of otherwise respected academics.”


Okay. Ask him to identify the members of that small circle. You want to know who they are, right?

I'm asking: Who are the members of that small group?
_Silver Hammer
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

Post by _Silver Hammer »

beastie wrote:
Silver Hammer wrote:Why are you saying these things? How COULD I possibly know the identity of anonymous blog posters on a message board I knew nothing about until a fewdays ago? I know who Will Schryver is. I know of Doctor Scratch by reputation only. I have never heard of any of the rest of you. I’m sorry if you are offended by that.


I'm not offended at all. Just amused.

I just have a hard time accepting that someone who knows none of these characters would suddenly happen upon this board and take an interest in this particular topic.

I was directed to this board and to this specific blog. I don't understand why you would expect me to know "these characters."
_Silver Hammer
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

Post by _Silver Hammer »

Doctor Scratch said: “I agree that he's been "ambiguous" in so far as he hasn't named any names. But he has clearly said that the MI apologists find "amusing" the things that have happened to him here. And the latest thing that has happened to him here is an extremely thorough and well-documented account of his misogynist behavior. (Which, by the way, you seem to have a neutral attitude towards.)”

Your conclusion that I have a “neutral attitude” towards “misogynist behavior” is just another example of you illogically multiplying inferences.

My brief time here has been a real eye-opening experience. I think I have learned everything I need to know about this place and how much weight to give to the things that are said here.

I thank all of you for your responses to my questions.
_beastie
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

Post by _beastie »

RockSlider wrote:In a different thread, I wrote a bit about my younger years. During my high school days (in Salt Lake City valley) the C word was very commonly used. You know like youth of today might say "that’s sick", well in our day, it was that’s "bitching" In a similar sense of regular/common usage of a word to in a particular time, the C word was common in my high school in the 70's.

Of course this may have been a very localized thing in Salt Lake City or in in my HS. But I do believe William is about my age and well might have seen this word used regularly during it's "fade" days as I saw it in my life.


Good point. Will is almost exactly my age, and I had the same experience in that the word was fairly commonly used in my high school, as well.

I don't understand how folks who think Schryver didn't call harmony an extremely nasty name reconcile Will's "I just made a witty comment about her hypocrisy" with the subsequent reaction of other posters. For heaven's sake, Rollo said he acted like the anti-christ!!!!
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_RockSlider
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Re: Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

Post by _RockSlider »

Silver Hammer wrote:Doctor Scratch said: “I agree that he's been "ambiguous" in so far as he hasn't named any names. But he has clearly said that the MI apologists find "amusing" the things that have happened to him here. And the latest thing that has happened to him here is an extremely thorough and well-documented account of his misogynist behavior. (Which, by the way, you seem to have a neutral attitude towards.)”

Your conclusion that I have a “neutral attitude” towards “misogynist behavior” is just another example of you illogically multiplying inferences.

My brief time here has been a real eye-opening experience. I think I have learned everything I need to know about this place and how much weight to give to the things that are said here.

I thank all of you for your responses to my questions.


good now put william back on the line
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