How The Church Can Stop Hemorrhaging Members

[_schreech]

Nehor, not that it matters, but I've never left my "faith". Neither has my family. I have also never met another purported Church member that doesn't feel openness and honesty are the best policy for the Church.

You are certainly an anomaly.

Also, how does valuing honesty make someone not humble?

Just fyi...you are dealing with a person who has remained a virgin into his 30s (because of the LDS church), speaks to demons, suggests that he has spoken to elohim, admits to using seer stones and has an unhealthy infatuation with critics of the LDS church...it seems to be affecting his mental health (assuming he wasn't a bit of loon to begin with)....He is a bitter, LDS "yes" man that can't just admit to himself that he is a bit of a nutter that has latched onto a ridiculous social club...

[_Buffalo]

Nope.

So who lied to them about the translation process?

[_Everybody Wang Chung]

Just fyi...you are dealing with a person who has remained a virgin into his 30s (because of the LDS church), speaks to demons, suggests that he has spoken to elohim, admits to using seer stones and has an unhealthy infatuation with critics of the LDS church...it seems to be affecting his mental health (assuming he wasn't a bit of loon to begin with)....He is a bitter, LDS "yes" man that can't just admit to himself that he is a bit of a nutter that has latched onto a ridiculous social club...

That explains a lot. I’ve been befuddled by the responses of “The Nehor”, who seems in every way to be an angry, bitter, reactive, defensive apologist unwilling to yield even the possibility that there could be errors of men peppered throughout Church history and administration. The Nehor seems to think that prophets and apostles are above and beyond the buffetings of the flesh, prejudice, and that they are infallible. (Thirty minutes of reading President Brigham Young’s “Journal of Discourses” should tell anybody that a prophet does not cease to be human just because he’s been called to lead the Church.)

I have no problem anymore with the fact that a divinely led Church can suffer pitfalls and engage in bad behavior and alienation on account of human fallibility. Even the Church during Christ’s time – when it was led by the Messiah in the flesh – had many who peeled away after hearing a sermon or a lesson from the Master they just couldn’t accept or grasp.

I do have a problem if a divinely led Church is not completely open and honest about its history, finances and actions.

[_The Nehor]

Nehor, not that it matters, but I've never left my "faith". Neither has my family. I have also never met another purported Church member that doesn't feel openness and honesty are the best policy for the Church.

I agree with them but your ideas of "openness and honesty" are odd.

You are certainly an anomaly.

Not really.

Also, how does valuing honesty make someone not humble?

I never said it did.

[_The Nehor]

Just fyi...you are dealing with a person who has remained a virgin into his 30s (because of the LDS church),

Guesswork.

speaks to demons,

Normal in the LDS faith.

suggests that he has spoken to elohim,

Yes, it's called prayer.

admits to using seer stones

Lie.

and has an unhealthy infatuation with critics of the LDS church

Wait....what?

...it seems to be affecting his mental health (assuming he wasn't a bit of loon to begin with)....He is a bitter, LDS "yes" man that can't just admit to himself that he is a bit of a nutter that has latched onto a ridiculous social club...

Ah, the fun of this. If I don't get one critic a week telling me my own life story incorrectly it just hasn't been a good week.

[_The Nehor]

That explains a lot. I’ve been befuddled by the responses of “The Nehor”, who seems in every way to be an angry, bitter, reactive, defensive apologist unwilling to yield even the possibility that there could be errors of men peppered throughout Church history and administration.

What? I've admitted openly that there are such errors many times.

The Nehor seems to think that prophets and apostles are above and beyond the buffetings of the flesh, prejudice, and that they are infallible. (Thirty minutes of reading President Brigham Young’s “Journal of Discourses” should tell anybody that a prophet does not cease to be human just because he’s been called to lead the Church.)

I have admitted to many that I do think prophets are normal men with an extraordinary mandate. Other then that they are like us struggling with sin and difficulties.

I have no problem anymore with the fact that a divinely led Church can suffer pitfalls and engage in bad behavior and alienation on account of human fallibility. Even the Church during Christ’s time – when it was led by the Messiah in the flesh – had many who peeled away after hearing a sermon or a lesson from the Master they just couldn’t accept or grasp.

Nor do I have such a problem.

I do have a problem if a divinely led Church is not completely open and honest about its history, finances and actions.

Which is code for tells everyone what you want them to tell everyone.

Same old, same old.

[_harmony]

Just fyi...you are dealing with a person who has remained a virgin into his 30s (because of the LDS church), speaks to demons, suggests that he has spoken to elohim, admits to using seer stones and has an unhealthy infatuation with critics of the LDS church...it seems to be affecting his mental health (assuming he wasn't a bit of loon to begin with)....He is a bitter, LDS "yes" man that can't just admit to himself that he is a bit of a nutter that has latched onto a ridiculous social club...

I've been wondering if he's been "Wade Jr" all along, or if he's just recently made that transition?

[_just me]

Speaking to demons is normal for LDS members? I have never heard that in my whole 34 years in the church. Unless you mean raising your arm to the square and commanding them to leave in the name of Jesus Christ. If that is what you mean, then I would agree. Every good Mormon knows how to do that!

[_Doctor Scratch]

Just fyi...you are dealing with a person who has remained a virgin into his 30s (because of the LDS church), speaks to demons, suggests that he has spoken to elohim, admits to using seer stones and has an unhealthy infatuation with critics of the LDS church...it seems to be affecting his mental health (assuming he wasn't a bit of loon to begin with)....He is a bitter, LDS "yes" man that can't just admit to himself that he is a bit of a nutter that has latched onto a ridiculous social club...

I've been wondering if he's been "Wade Jr" all along, or if he's just recently made that transition?

Oh, wow.... I am ROFLOL!!! "Wade Jr.".... How freaking perfect. This is a classic.... Lol....

[_The Nehor]

Speaking to demons is normal for LDS members? I have never heard that in my whole 34 years in the church. Unless you mean raising your arm to the square and commanding them to leave in the name of Jesus Christ. If that is what you mean, then I would agree. Every good Mormon knows how to do that!

I don't mean in the sense of talking about your life. I mean in the sense of being tempted and the interactions involved.