Is the Mormon Church dishonest...?

[_jon]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints places great emphasis on the need for honesty and truth.

One of its Articles of Faith (canonized statements of its basic beliefs) states:
'We believe in being honest, true...'

To achieve the top status of membership (the holding of a valid pass to enter the Temples) you have to pass a series of worthiness tests, questioned by your local Church leader. One of these questions asks:
'Are you honest in your dealings with your fellow men?

So, honesty and truth seem to be important in the faith. But does the organization practice what it preaches?

Example Number 1.
There can be no doubt that the method for producing the Book of Mormon involved Joseph Smith putting a rock (seer stone if you prefer) in his hat. You could make an argument for the method of using the Urim & Thummim (Rock/crystal based spectacles) initially but only for the pages that were 'lost'.
The Church provides its volunteer teachers with support materials including pictures, that are to be shown during the appropriate lesson. The picture for the translation of the Book of Mormon shows Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdrey sat at a table with the golden plates clearly on display in front of them. Joseph is studying them and Oliver is writing.
(Picture available on the LDS website under media support materials)

No rock, no hat, no Urim and Thummim and Oliver can clearly see the plates.

So, is this picture dishonest?

Example Number 2.
The Doctrine and Covenants is canonized LDS scripture which contains 'revelations given to Joseph Smith, The Prophet.
Section 137 was 'given' to Joseph on January 21st 1836 and was recorded in his journal - it is from this journal that section 137 was copied (well almost copied, see below).
Verse 5 of section 137 reads:
'I saw Father Adam and Abraham; and my father and my mother...'
(available to view online at the LDS website under scriptures)
However, the actual journal entry from which this is copied reads:
'I saw Father Adam and Abraham and Michael and my father and my mother...'
(available from the LDS website 'The Joseph Smith Papers' under Journals)
No official (apologists have had a go at speculating and theorising) explanation for the omission of the fact that Joseph saw Michael as well as Adam and Abraham is given.
This is important because Mormons believe (and are instructed in the Temple) that in fact Michael IS Adam.
So either Michael isn't Adam after all, or perhaps Joseph was mistaken in who he saw (both situations would be very embarrassing on the Church's credibility).

So is section 137 of the Doctrine & Covenants dishonest?


Does the Mormon Church 'believe in being honest, true...'?

[_Joseph]

The simple answer is YES.

[_Themis]

So, is this picture dishonest?

A picture cannot be dishonest, but the painter probably was. The church's use of it is dishonest, and Nehor artistic license does not work here. The church uses and even has pictures created explicitly for teaching it's members about the church and it's past or at least their faithful view of it. A picture is a great tool opf learning so seeing Joseph and Oliver working on the same table with the plates in full view of both people and no use of the seer stone is going to teach a version of the translation method that is not true. The church does not mind this becuase the actual method is not faith promoting. The church has no problem being dishonest if they think it will better promote faith. Even some apologists seem to think this is OK. Lying for the Lord. Some truths are not useful.

Does the Mormon Church 'believe in being honest, true...'?

They do when it suits them, and not when it doesn't. To be fair many other organizations/religions have done the same. It's just a man-made organization.

[_Buffalo]

Example Number 2.
The Doctrine and Covenants is canonized LDS scripture which contains 'revelations given to Joseph Smith, The Prophet.
Section 137 was 'given' to Joseph on January 21st 1836 and was recorded in his journal - it is from this journal that section 137 was copied (well almost copied, see below).
Verse 5 of section 137 reads:
'I saw Father Adam and Abraham; and my father and my mother...'
(available to view online at the LDS website under scriptures)
However, the actual journal entry from which this is copied reads:
'I saw Father Adam and Abraham and Michael and my father and my mother...'
(available from the LDS website 'The Joseph Smith Papers' under Journals)
No official (apologists have had a go at speculating and theorising) explanation for the omission of the fact that Joseph saw Michael as well as Adam and Abraham is given.
This is important because Mormons believe (and are instructed in the Temple) that in fact Michael IS Adam.
So either Michael isn't Adam after all, or perhaps Joseph was mistaken in who he saw (both situations would be very embarrassing on the Church's credibility).

So is section 137 of the Doctrine & Covenants dishonest?


Does the Mormon Church 'believe in being honest, true...'?

Wow, another one of these. Joseph made a lot of these blunders. He claimed to have been visited by both Elias and Elijah (same person, Greek vs Hebrew version of name). The Book of Mormon also talks about two prophets named Isaiah and Ezias (same person, Greek vs Hebrew version of name).

It just goes to show, Joseph couldn't keep up with his own bull.

[Guest]

The LDS Church philosopy: "the ends justfies the means".

If they were 100% honest with investigators, almost no one would join the church.

[_Ceeboo]

Without question:

Yes


Peace,
Ceeboo

[_The Nehor]

No.

[_Buffalo]

No.

Who can argue with that logic?

[_Quasimodo]

Is the Mormon Church dishonest...?

Is lying to protect or promote religious doctrines hypocritical?

[_Baker]

Is Too-Tall Jones really too tall?