Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

[_Simon Belmont]

got caught up in Simon-Wade nonsense. Now I am done.

???

[_RockSlider]

Seriously, though, I have to take my hat off to Eric and Ceeboo and DadofMormon and Rollo and others for their fair and reasoned examination of this issue. Your collective actions are a credit to this board. [thumbs up]

Agreed. And adding in wade, droopy, Silver Hammer, Nomad ... and likely others I've missed - maybe the accused "dogpile" was not fair/accurate.

[Guest]

Trevor ~ When accused of misbehavior on our forums, William and his defenders have inevitably reached for one of the following approaches:

[1] - "propaganda"
[2] - out-of-context
[3] - Misquoted / Misattributed / Didn't say it
[4] - Accurate, but those "bitches" deserved it

My post circumvented the effectiveness of [1] and [2] and [3] by citing carefully and providing links to the source material. They've responded by focusing in on the one quote out of the dozens I provided where [3] can possibly be disputed. It's a disappointing move, but it was predictable to the core.

[4], of course, never was an effective defense in the slightest, but I imagine William and his defenders will continue to not realize this.

All I can say is that the younger apologists I have developed the most respect for don't really approve of or well suffer this kind of nonsense. I am encouraged by that, because it suggests that when the current crop of elder apologists shuffles off this mortal coil, we will see much less of this garbage.

[_Kevin Graham]

For the Will-haters who can't bear to see even the least pretense of evidence against him go the way of the world, and who may be discouraged by the waning credence, and even growing decent, over the "C" word controversy, never fear, Chief Inspector Jacques Clouseau Graham is still on the case. Rest assured that this windmill will invariably be tilted.

Seriously, though, I have to take my hat off to Eric and Ceeboo and DadofMormon and Rollo and others for their fair and reasoned examination of this issue. Your collective actions are a credit to this board. [thumbs up]

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Will-haters? Yes, that must be it. I mean it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the plethora of evidence proving he is a despicable character who has unjustifiably denigrated women on this forum. I feel sorry for his wife and daughter, who have a father and husband who is notorious for such antics.

The fact that he backs off the men like a frightened mouse (he has several of us on ignore), but then mouths off like a sailor towards the women, is very telling indeed. Will is a poor excuse for a man. It is no wonder his front tooth was knocked out of his pumpkin head via fist.

And notice that no one you consider "reasonable" has concluded Will didn't use the C-Word. Rollo, for example, admits that he may very well have said it; he just didn't see it. They're just bending over backwards trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. There is nothing wrong with that. Others merely point out that they don't recall seeing it. This is hardly evidence that Will's nonsensical version holds water. Again, no one is addressing the illogical argument Schryver has put forth. Does it really make sense that calling harmony a "hypocrite" and an "embarrassment" would result in such a firestorm of protest? At the very least, we should be able to conclude that Will is lying about what he says he said. So it is hardly a stretch to see him lying about what he didn't say.

[_Eric]

Out of curiosity, how lightly should we take calling an "elderly woman" a bitch, a wench, a repulsive example of womanhood, poking fun at her sex life, and expressing surprise that her husband hasn't committed suicide by now in addition to asserting that he deserves 72 virgins in heaven for putting up with her?

Because I doubted this one incident, Will using the C-word towards harmony, I have to now comment on the seriousness of every other documented misdeed?

No thanks.

Call me a cad if you like, but the evidence is against Will using the C-word towards harmony. I know it's an extremely egregious thing I did, doubting this accusation, but I'm just not convinced. Sorry. Nothing personal.

I haven't seen testimonies that contradicted one another. Several remember the word C-word but it is understandable that they wouldn't all necessarily remember exactly how it was spelled out.

Liz, Stak, and Spurven (who I consider to be my friends) all give very different versions of what happened. I think it is very likely that they are misremembering what happened (I don't think they are lying), more likely than Will lying about it (in this specific situation, I'm not speaking about other examples). That seems like the most reasonable explanation.

The fact that Rollo replied to the post before it was deleted, and says he did not see the C-word in that post, weighs very heavily against the allegation and was the deciding factor in this whole debacle for me. The fact that the post wasn't edited until 9 hours later further strengthens my convictions.

By the way, there are plenty of other instances on the board where the c-word has been used and left in tact. I linked to one earlier. Also, harmony's note in her edit didn't say that it was edited for vulgarity, or gross obscenity, but rather because of a "personal attack."

Sure, the c-word could qualify as a personal attack, but if I had to guess what was said, I would say that it was probably related to physical appearance. That seems to fit better with all the other documented incidents.

Once again, all I've said about this is that I don't believe that specific incident happened. I'm not defending Will. It has nothing to do with Will. If this incident doesn't take away from the rest of the "case" against Will, I don't see why some people are so dead-set on believing it. It is - by far - the least supported accusation in this thread.


ETA:

Moreover, for Harmony to lie about this is unreasonable because obviously she knew several others saw what was said. So why would she lie about what was said, knowing perfectly well there are numerous posters here to call her out for it?

I'd be more comfortable saying that she is mistaken about it. I wouldn't call her a liar. I think she was extremely offended, remembers being extremely offended, but is wrong about what was actually said.

[Gadianton]

Agreed. And adding in wade, droopy, Silver Hammer, Nomad ... and likely others I've missed - maybe the accused "dogpile" was not fair/accurate.

I don't know about the world you live in, but the one I live in, dogpiling is determined by the number of people who innitially pile on, and not by the number of people who don't, or the number of people who may have back off piling on just one of multiple issues.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Gadianton]

Will-haters? Yes, that must be it. I mean it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the plethora of evidence proving he is a despicable character who has unjustifiably denigrated women on this forum. I feel sorry for his wife and daughter, who have a father and husband who is notorious for such antics.

The fact that he backs off the men like a frightened mouse (he has several of us on ignore), but then mouths off like a sailor towards the women, is very telling indeed. Will is a poor excuse for a man. It is no wonder his front tooth was knocked out of his pumpkin head via fist.

And notice that no one you consider "reasonable" has concluded Will didn't use the C-Word. Rollo, for example, admits that he may very well have said it; he just didn't see it. They're just bending over backwards trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. There is nothing wrong with that. Others merely point out that they don't recall seeing it. This is hardly evidence that Will's nonsensical version holds water. Again, no one is addressing the illogical argument Schryver has put forth. Does it really make sense that calling harmony a "hypocrite" and an "embarrassment" would result in such a firestorm of protest? At the very least, we should be able to conclude that Will is lying about what he says he said. So it is hardly a stretch to see him lying about what he didn't say.

What a privelege it is to be treated to some of Cheif Inspector Jacques Clouseau Graham's finest detective work. This puts beyond question, and makes it a fact, that CI Graham is THE ONE who knows how to do research. Prepare for him to regale us with endless accounts of his exploits and resounding successes in this matter--and this to the utter shame and perminant defeat of those who dared cross him.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_consiglieri]

Test
c ***
cu **
cun *
c * * * *

as suspected all required editing to put in the splat. Dang and I'm not even a KEP encryption expert.

TEST

Will is a c u n t.

(I just love circumnavigating software.)



All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_MsJack]

Because I doubted this one incident, Will using the C-word towards harmony, I have to now comment on the seriousness of every other documented misdeed?

You don't "have" to do anything. However, you say that your interest in "the c-word incident" has to do with your view of it as a serious allegation. I regard much of the behavior that I documented in the OP as just as serious, if not more serious than that one example, so I'm curious as to why you are less interested in that.

Of course, there's no rule that says you have to address William's transgressions in order of seriousness; you're allowed to be as arbitrary as you like and you don't owe anyone any explanation. My question was just me being curious.

Call me a cad if you like, but the evidence is against Will using the C-word towards harmony.

You haven't demonstrated this, but please feel free to keep saying it. This is, after all, a free speech forum.

I know it's an extremely egregious thing I did, doubting this accusation, but I'm just not going to accept this part of your Will treatise until I see some better evidence.

I haven't accused you of doing anything egregious. You expressed hope that I would edit my post to reflect your conclusions on the matter, and I politely explained why I disagreed with your assessment of the evidence. It was nothing personal.

If this incident doesn't take away from the rest of the "case" against Will, I don't see why some people are so dead-set on believing it.

Well, here's a hint: My busy schedule as a working mom in graduate school and my love of World of Warcraft are not the only reasons why my participation in this thread has been scant, particularly since the last 15 pages or so have become an in-depth examination of an entire .5% of my post.

It is - by far - the least supported accusation in this thread.

/agree

However, that is because it is the only example in my OP that relied on eyewitness testimony instead of a direct link to the actual words William said. Hearsay will never be as powerful as seeing something with one's own eyes.

[_consiglieri]

TEST

Will is a c u n t.

(I just love circumnavigating software.)



All the Best!

--Consiglieri

I just realized I posted this in the Celestial Forum.

I hope this test doesn't violate any forum rules or anything.

It's just four letters with spaces in between that have no relationship to each other whatsoever.

If it violated any rules, I am sure the software would have supplied appropriate asterixes, as in cunt.

And this test should not be construed as evidence that Harmony's memory may be spot on . . .

All the Best!

--Consiglieri