White for white, rich for rich, poor for poor...

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_The Nehor
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Re: White for white, rich for rich, poor for poor...

Post by _The Nehor »

DarkHelmet wrote:Those manuals were written in 1981, so it was apparently still the opinion of the church in 1981 that interracial marriage was "repugnant to most normal-minded people."


When you use quote marks you should quote the material and not what you think it means.

In 1981 racism was stronger then it is now (thought it still exists obviously). Differences in racial background usually (but not always) include(d) some difference in upbringing, values, etc. A different culture.

The interesting thing about this statement is how at odds it was with marriage during polygamy. Women didn't have to marry "their kind."


And this quote is also clear that they do not "have to". It is something to take into consideration though. If I were to date a, let's say, Korean girl who was raised in Korea and has spent only a short time in America there would almost certainly be massive differences in our perceptions of how marriage, family life, child-rearing, and the like should all be done. I would be wise to not marry her until we saw eye to eye on many of those things.

A girl from the poorest family in the area could move into Brigham Young's mansion if she caught his eye. Joseph Smith sent his white missionaries out to marry the Lamanite girls. Was Joseph Smith from the same economic background as Emma Smith?


Hence "generally".
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_Daniel2
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Re: White for white, rich for rich, poor for poor...

Post by _Daniel2 »

The Nehor wrote:No, it counsels that marriages with more differences are less likely to be successful (see the quote). This is true.

By that logic, the church clearly supports same-sex marriage, right...?

White for white, rich for rich, poor for poor, man for man, woman for woman, gay for gay, straight for straight... ;)

Darin
"Have compassion for everyone you meet even if they don't want it. What seems conceit, bad manners, or cynicism is always a sign of things no ears have heard, no eyes have seen. You do not know what wars are going on down there where the spirit meets the bone."--Miller Williams
_The Nehor
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Re: White for white, rich for rich, poor for poor...

Post by _The Nehor »

Darin wrote:
The Nehor wrote:No, it counsels that marriages with more differences are less likely to be successful (see the quote). This is true.

By that logic, the church clearly supports same-sex marriage, right...?

White for white, rich for rich, poor for poor, man for man, woman for woman... ;)

Darin


Funny but no. :)
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_Chap
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Re: White for white, rich for rich, poor for poor...

Post by _Chap »

The Nehor wrote:
DarkHelmet wrote:Those manuals were written in 1981, so it was apparently still the opinion of the church in 1981 that interracial marriage was "repugnant to most normal-minded people."


When you use quote marks you should quote the material and not what you think it means.



Oh, it was a quote, and deserved to be shown as such - indeed it is quite a well-known quote, and I suspect DarkHelmet expected his readers to recognize it:

“Your ideas, as we understand them, appear to contemplate the intermarriage of the Negro and white races, a concept which has heretofore been most repugnant to most normal-minded people from the ancient patriarchs until now.... there is a growing tendency, particularly among some educators, as it manifests itself in this area, toward the breaking down of race barriers in the matter of intermarriage between whites and blacks, but it does not have the sanction of the Church and is contrary to Church doctrine.”

- LDS First Presidency (George Albert Smith), letter to Virgil H. Sponberg (critic of the anti-black ban), May 5, 1947, quoted in Lester E. Bush, Mormonism’s Negro Doctrine: a historical Overview, p. 42
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Daniel2
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Re: White for white, rich for rich, poor for poor...

Post by _Daniel2 »

The Nehor wrote:Funny but no. :)

Obviously, I already knew the answer to my rhetorical question--but it does demonstrate the inconsistency of any attempt or implication of the irrational position that "sameness" in a marriage is universally better than "difference."

Ironically, I think Chap's quote could be slightly altered, with just a few word substitutions, to reflect many Latter-day Saints' attitudes and feelings towards same-sex marriage...

“Your ideas, as we understand them, appear to contemplate the intermarriage of [same-sex couples], a concept which has heretofore been most repugnant to most normal-minded people from the ancient patriarchs until now.... there is a growing tendency, particularly among some educators, as it manifests itself in this area, toward the breaking down of [gender] barriers in the matter of intermarriage between [same-sex couples], but it does not have the sanction of the Church and is contrary to Church doctrine.”

Darin
Last edited by Guest on Mon May 09, 2011 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Have compassion for everyone you meet even if they don't want it. What seems conceit, bad manners, or cynicism is always a sign of things no ears have heard, no eyes have seen. You do not know what wars are going on down there where the spirit meets the bone."--Miller Williams
_Chap
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Re: White for white, rich for rich, poor for poor...

Post by _Chap »

Darin wrote:Ironically, I think Chaz's quote could be slightly altered, ...


OK. Maybe Chaz would be cooler than Chap ...
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_cinepro
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Re: White for white, rich for rich, poor for poor...

Post by _cinepro »

Just so I'm clear, what do we all think are valid considerations in choosing a spouse?
_Daniel2
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Re: White for white, rich for rich, poor for poor...

Post by _Daniel2 »

Chap wrote:
Darin wrote:Ironically, I think Chaz's quote could be slightly altered, ...


OK. Maybe Chaz would be cooler than Chap ...

Oops! lol... sorry... fixed it in my original post. ;)

Darin
"Have compassion for everyone you meet even if they don't want it. What seems conceit, bad manners, or cynicism is always a sign of things no ears have heard, no eyes have seen. You do not know what wars are going on down there where the spirit meets the bone."--Miller Williams
_Daniel2
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Re: White for white, rich for rich, poor for poor...

Post by _Daniel2 »

cinepro wrote:Just so I'm clear, what do we all think are valid considerations in choosing a spouse?


Great question, cinepro.

I'll take the first stab at it:

Mutual goals/Similar priorities
Synchronicity in personality/communication styles
Sexual compatibility
Similar financial paradigm
Mutual commitment and respect

That's a first pass on how I'd answer the question.

I'm curious to hear what others also prioritize.

Darin
Last edited by Guest on Mon May 09, 2011 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Have compassion for everyone you meet even if they don't want it. What seems conceit, bad manners, or cynicism is always a sign of things no ears have heard, no eyes have seen. You do not know what wars are going on down there where the spirit meets the bone."--Miller Williams
_just me
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Re: White for white, rich for rich, poor for poor...

Post by _just me »

cinepro wrote:Just so I'm clear, what do we all think are valid considerations in choosing a spouse?


You should pick someone you are physically and sexually attracted to. Someone who is a functional adult is very helpful. Someone with similar goals.

Actually, yeah, what Darin said.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
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