Middle way Mormons are in peril

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_badseed
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Re: Middle way Mormons are in peril

Post by _badseed »

The Nehor wrote:When they are recruiting and organizing.

They are organizing but recruiting in my opinion is a stretch. I see the efforts of John Dehlin and others as being in line with D&C 58:

26For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.

27Verily I say, men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness;

28For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves. And inasmuch as men do good they shall in nowise lose their reward.

********************************

There is a need not being filled by the Church and these people are trying to help out. They are trying to deal with serious issues of faith and family— and help others do the same as well. I have been helped far more by John Dehlin and those he's worked with than I ever was by a Bishop or SP. The sad truth is that LDS leadership is not equipped or authorized to give any sort of meaningful help to Middle Way or doubting Mormons. For many praying and reading the scriptures just isn't enough.
Crawling around the evidence in order to maintain a testimony of the Book of Mormon.

http://www.ldsrevelations.com/blog
_why me
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Re: Middle way Mormons are in peril

Post by _why me »

The LDS church couldn't care less about middle way Mormons. They have been around since the church began. However, what is a problem is if these groups organize and create divisions in the LDS church. Now that is a problem for any church and discipline would be necessary. In the new testment, Paul cautions the saints to be of one mind. He knew the problem that trouble makers can cause when they attempt to create dissent in the church body.

However, I have been a middle way Mormon for years and no one cares whatsoever. Many know that I attend the catholic church and yet, nothing happens to me. I am still welcome in meetings and welcome to take the sacrament. The bishop or stake president has never asked to speak to me.

Now if I had a website and began to draw people out of the church or post my disdain for the LDS church, now that would get a different response, and rightly so.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_why me
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Re: Middle way Mormons are in peril

Post by _why me »

badseed wrote:They are organizing but recruiting in my opinion is a stretch. I see the efforts of John Dehlin and others as being in line with D&C 58:

26For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.

27Verily I say, men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness;

28For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves. And inasmuch as men do good they shall in nowise lose their reward.

********************************

There is a need not being filled by the Church and these people are trying to help out. They are trying to deal with serious issues of faith and family— and help others do the same as well. I have been helped far more by John Dehlin and those he's worked with than I ever was by a Bishop or SP. The sad truth is that LDS leadership is not equipped or authorized to give any sort of meaningful help to Middle Way or doubting Mormons. For many praying and reading the scriptures just isn't enough.


Most of the folks at NOM do not like the LDS church. Heaven forbid if a poster posts positive posts about the LDS church on that site. An excommunication from the board is certainly a possibility. What I have found amazing is that Nomish or postmormonish boards are the most doctrinaire of the boards. They have absolutely a low tolerance for any poster who has a positive thought about the LDS church. They demand conformity in their negativism toward things LDS.

It is rather hypocritical of them to bitch and moan about the conformity of the LDS church when they are on forums that demand conformity. In the LDS church, one could have many differing opinions but when the member attempts to lead others astray and attempts to sow doubts in others, well, that will be a problem for any church.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_The Nehor
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Re: Middle way Mormons are in peril

Post by _The Nehor »

Kishkumen wrote:
The Nehor wrote:The naïveté here is shocking. You will swallow any story without any critical thinking at all if it makes LDS look bad won't you?


What naïveté is there in reporting a story as it unfolds? I have not made any final conclusions on any of this. I have no idea exactly what is going on. I have my suspicions, and, no, they are not necessarily flattering of the Church, but that is far different from making some kind of bold claim about how awful the Church based on a reading of these events.


I'm not talking about bold claims. I'm talking about believing some of these stories.

And what story is it that I am swallowing, exactly? Are you suggesting that this fellow made it up?


Yes.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_RockSlider
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Re: Middle way Mormons are in peril

Post by _RockSlider »

I think to really get the just of the situation here; you have to listen to the following podcast first:
Exploring the Future for Uncorrelated Mormons
I’m not a Facebook person, but apparently a meetup right after the NYC presentation given by John there was some more conversation that lead to the following being posted on the Mormon stories Facebook group page – or whatever:
Interesting and good read follows:
Anne xxxxxxxxxxxx:

"Hi all.... I wrote the below in response to the many questions we've been receiving in regards to the regions and their possible connection to John being called in by his SP. I hope this is helpful to some of you. Thanks.....

******************************

Confession: I started the Mormon Story regions. They don't, though, belong to me any more than they belong to John Dehlin, of course. They belong to all of us. I started them because it seemed to me like it was time for the burden John was carrying to be spread over all of our shoulders. The goal was to create something that would be jointly owned. The goal was NOT to provoke the church or to establish something that could bring wrath down upon his shoulders. It's ironic to me, then, that he (once again) finds himself in the hot seat where no single person should ever have to sit alone. This (whatever "this" is) belongs to all of us.

With that in mind, it might be a good idea to share with you all the story behind the creation of the regions. My hope is that in doing so, you will understand their intent and that it will be clear that none of this is now nor ever was devised for the express purpose of directly challenging authority. Rather, the purpose of the regions is and was only to be about us -- about COMMUNITY and relationships and sharing the work. (Imagine that!)

After the NYC conference, John and I found ourselves sitting together at a table at Planet Hollywood in Times Square. John was clearly worn out. The conference had been a total success, but its success had come at a cost to him personally. I became somewhat uncomfortably aware that the incredible benefits I had been receiving from Mormon Stories were coming at a cost and that it was unfair for me to continue to reap those benefits without thinking about how difficult John's position must be. My guess, as I was listening to him, was that it kinda sucks to stand at the head of a group of people who need support and who, in many cases, might be looking for something or someone to replace the relationship they used to have with the church. I looked inside of myself and disliked the fact that I was asking more of John than is fair to ask of any one person.

We talked about how important it is to continue having conferences, but that making them happen was literally an impossibility simply because John does not have enough hours in the day to do everything himself. Our discussion about the predicament he's in led to a brainstorm of ways we might continue forward and build on the strength of NYC in order to keep Mormon Stories thriving for everyone's benefit. I suggested that we come up with a system that would make it easy for the burden of caring for community and planning conferences to be placed on many shoulders instead of just two. We had been tossing the idea of internet regions around earlier in the month, so I suggested we launch the internet region idea and add to it the opportunity for local leaders to volunteer and plan conferences themselves. This just made practical sense to me. Many people can easily do what is an impossibility for one.

The next morning I arrived home in Boston, picked up my computer and started making groups. Our plan wasn't big. We were shocked, frankly, by the quick response we received and we laughed about how it would have been in our best interest to prepare a bit more before we turned our brainstorm into a reality. I took the immediate success, however, to be an indication that the regions really are something that we have all needed for a while now and as more proof that they don't belong to me or to John or to anyone. Rather, they belong to ALL OF US. They're something we can all collectively take responsibility for and nurture.

My hope, still, is that we can all approach the bench and try to share this burden equally. I know I'm being optimistic and that each one of us has to look within and examine our own courage and willingness to sacrifice and share. I don't think we need to be afraid of censure, discipline or excommunication, however. I hate to sound trite, but what will come will come. This is no big deal, really, as long as we all work together and keep on truckin' in the direction we're moving. I don't know much about god... I wish I knew more. I do know, though, that what we're doing is good.

The most amazing thing is that in that moment at Planet Hollywood, John and I both experienced a strong feeling of peace and comfort. Was it more than a normal emotional response? I have no idea. All I know is that I felt it and that he felt it and that the regions are what came out of it. It's hard for me, then, to question what has happened or to be afraid of what the future might bring. I guess what I'm saying that all along this has just felt "right." It happened naturally.

So..... I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm excited. Let's have fun with this and enjoy the new friendships we're making. We can allow those in authority to do what they choose to do. Their actions are only our problem if we allow ourselves to be scared or intimidated.... and there's no call for that. Yes, the best thing would be to have the church's blessing. I'm not holding my breath, but here's to hoping....."
_Kishkumen
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Re: Middle way Mormons are in peril

Post by _Kishkumen »

The Nehor wrote:I'm not talking about bold claims. I'm talking about believing some of these stories.


You haven't provided any reasoned criticism of anything. Your automatic suspicion and disdain for my sharing the story seems to be grounded in little more than your prejudices.

The Nehor wrote:Yes.


Feel free to explain what possible motivation this guy could have to fabricate this story. I will happily concede that he is not a neutral reporter of the events, but that is hardly the same thing as making things up out of whole cloth.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_RockSlider
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Re: Middle way Mormons are in peril

Post by _RockSlider »

_The Nehor
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Re: Middle way Mormons are in peril

Post by _The Nehor »

Kishkumen wrote:You haven't provided any reasoned criticism of anything. Your automatic suspicion and disdain for my sharing the story seems to be grounded in little more than your prejudices.

Yesterday a "Middle Way Mormon" raped my dog and mudered my cat. Then he stole my TV. Slightly less believable then this guy's story but along the same lines.

Feel free to explain what possible motivation this guy could have to fabricate this story. I will happily concede that he is not a neutral reporter of the events, but that is hardly the same thing as making things up out of whole cloth.

That's easy. He wants to mock the Church while portraying himself as a victim. The local Church leaders are portrayed as sinister without being bad enough to kick him out. His BP told him he would be "monitored"? He used that word? His family thinks he is gay and Satanic over this? Right......
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_Kishkumen
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Re: Middle way Mormons are in peril

Post by _Kishkumen »

The Nehor wrote:That's easy. He wants to mock the Church while portraying himself as a victim. The local Church leaders are portrayed as sinister without being bad enough to kick him out. His BP told him he would be "monitored"? He used that word? His family thinks he is gay and Satanic over this? Right......


I don't agree at all. He obviously does not want to be excommunicated. He repeatedly defends and praises his branch president and stake president. If he is hard on anyone, it is his family, with whom he seems to have already had problems. Based on my reading of this, it was his family that was responsible for turning him in to his stake president and who provided the evidence against him. He had the bad fortune to get swept along in whatever is happening with John Dehlin. And, as I have said, I don't know exactly what that is. Obviously, we are all trying to figure that out.

So, uh, maybe you should try to be a more thoughtful and careful reader before you go off half-cocked maligning people.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Chap
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Re: Middle way Mormons are in peril

Post by _Chap »

Kishkumen wrote:So, uh, maybe you should try to be a more thoughtful and careful reader before you go off half-cocked maligning people.


Chance would be a fine thing.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
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