Middle way Mormons are in peril

[_Doctor Scratch]

Details, please? When/where/what venue?

I'll try to hunt it up. It was on one of the blogs.

ETA: Unfortunately, I think the comments were purged. There was a blog post on Mormon Matters. Midgley appeared and tussled with Kerry. Now there is, mysteriously, only one comment on the post, something that may suggest the conflict was purged.

Maybe I have the wrong blog post. I'll keep looking.

ETA2: When I google "Mormon Mysticism Midgley," I get "Thanks especially also to Reed Russell and Louis Midgley, both gents of whom I admire..." but it does not show up on the page.

It's right here, I believe (though it does look like it was cross-posted from the Mormon Matters blog):

http://kolobiv.blogspot.com/2009_09_01_archive.html

(It's a post from Sept. of 2009.) Midgley pops in to give poor Kerry a rather vicious dressing down:

The fact is that nothing posted above fits any definition of mysticism. What we have is the squishy use of a term. But there has been exactly no serious investigation of the origin or subsequent history of that term. The fact is that Latter-day Saint faith does not fit at all standard descriptions of mysticism, and what we think of as Seers and Prophets are not even understood as mystics. Instead, the use of the label mysticism came into the literature on Mormon things in an effort to find a term under which a presumably sophisticated counter explanation could be given for Joseph Smith prophetic truth claims. But bluntly, when historians and others have used the terms mystic and mysticism in describing Joseph Smith, they have done so in an effort to demonstrate either that he was a superstitious rustic who made up nonsense or that he was dissociative or simply a fraud. I have investigated both the literature on mysticism, read books by mystics, and also uncovered essentially all the literature in which Joseph Smith has been called a mystic.
Now I can’t, of course, sort this all out on this blog. But I can recommend that all of you, and also my friend Kerry Shirts, pay close attention to the issues I have raised.

Later in the comments, Kerry immediately starts backpedaling and bowing down to "Emperor" Midgley. Quite sad, in my opinion.

[_Gadianton]

Later in the comments, Kerry immediately starts backpedaling and bowing down to "Emperor" Midgley. Quite sad, in my opinion.

It sounds to me like the thinking had been done, Doctor Scratch.

[_Kishkumen]

Later in the comments, Kerry immediately starts backpedaling and bowing down to "Emperor" Midgley. Quite sad, in my opinion.

It sounds to me like the thinking had been done, Doctor Scratch.

Indeed. Emperor Lou has done the thinking on many issues. I guess this is one memo that Kerry had not read.

[_Fifth Columnist]

Here is the latest from CWald:

I also KNOW that the area authority who is over the Cache Valley/Franklin County is not convinced, and the SPs in those areas have been contacted and they are concerned about the "middle way" rhetoric that this site espouses.

My SP brothers knows all about this site folks and my involvement here, and even that I have quoted some of my other brothers comments from letters in certain threads. He is a good man, but don't for a second think he doesn't consider our activity here to be "apostate."

and

(I am updating my status on this thread for my SP brothers sake, since I know that he is following this thread and I want to be fair to him and the church.)

I don't care to be a celebrity or a martyr as they talked about on NOM, and I think this all pretty well sucks.

It's been a hellish three days. My family relations are shot. SHOT!

Here is what I know as of today. I am being monitored and my posts at StayLDS are being read. Now whether that is from church leaders or family members I cannot say for sure, but in my case it is BOTH.

My SP brother called my SP here in Oregon. I have been told that was out of obligation of his office and what the Area Authority has asked SPs to do when they find "middle way" Mormons. Now, my family believes that makes it okay because it really isn't a family member making the call but a church leader making the call. You can make up your own mind on that one. I have an opinion about it...

I was reassured that all this was just out of concern about my "spiritual well-being" because of some emails I had sent home, my Facebook page religious status which was Buddhism at the time, and my involvement with "middle way" internet groups, and that church court was never part of the equation, they were only concerned about my "apostate" activity with online "middle way" groups, and some problems with "middle way" Mormons in the Cache Valley area that I am friends with. If they have an official apostate group, I don't know about it. I'm thinking that it's just online activity such as NOM, Mormon expressions, Mormon stories and StayLDS. At least that is the feeling I am getting now.

My SP brother did call my SP back concerned about the "church court" wordage I used in my scathing email to him, and told family members it was never about church court --- just concern.

My SP is not pursuing the investigation.

The words "church discipline" were used numerous times in my interview. I believe that perhaps my BP or SP got freaked out over these accusations? I don't know. However, after hours of discussion, I will be okay.

The BP told me that I am getting released from EQP because "I don't hold a TR and I am not a "full tithe" payer." This is all true and that is the policy. I think it is important to note that I have had this calling for two years without a TR. But, it is the policy and I kind of knew this was just a matter of time.

The BP let me know last night that I will not be released from my other callings at this time, and that I am welcome and wanted in the branch, but I should careful about what I say to other church members.

I'm not sure if I'm going back now. I just don't know.

There is no question that the leadership in the Cache Valley area are VERY concerned about the "middle way" idea that is floating around, and that they consider my involvement on John Dehlin's StayLDS website as "apostate." I have heard no mention of NOM from my sources - but if StayLDS is considered to be an apostate group....you get my drift. Mormon stories and Mormon expressions were mentioned, but not by SP brother but from family members so.....

Also - there is no question that the leadership in the Cache Valley area are monitoring and reading these posts. I personally think that is a good thing because I think it would help them understand some of the sticky issues members have and how they might address the problems and make the church more palatable. But, it they consider it apostate, than obviously it is not. I will not speculate further about there motivation.

This is coming from at least an area authority, but probably higher. John Dehlin has confirmed that his stake president specifically asked him about the "middle way" and whether he was a part of it. John wasn't sure what he was talking about and thought it was a reference to NOM (http://www.newordermormon.org). John's stake president also warned him that if John is encouraging people to leave the Church he has crossed the line (I have to LOL about that since John is the poster child for trying to stay and make things work).

In the eyes of the Church, the only acceptable way for someone to handle doubts is in silence with no support from anyone of a like mind. John poses a threat because he is showing doubters that it is okay to doubt and there is a community of like minded people who you can join for support. In other words, he is legitimizing doubters and doubting. That is the last thing the Church wants and it is responding accordingly.

Frankly, I hope they try to do something to John. It would almost certainly bring some level of media attention and, hopefully, draw additional doubters to the community. The Church isn't going to fix this by ex-ing doubters.

[_Kishkumen]

Can you provide links, Fifth?

[_cafe crema]

It is rather hypocritical of them to bitch and moan about the conformity of the LDS church when they are on forums that demand conformity. In the LDS church, one could have many differing opinions but when the member attempts to lead others astray and attempts to sow doubts in others, well, that will be a problem for any church.

Your bitterness is showing, I see you wouldn't follow their board guidelines and got tossed from there too.

[_Fifth Columnist]

Can you provide links, Fifth?

cwalds posts are here (this where he says this goes at least as high as the area authority level): http://www.staylds.com/forum/viewtopic. ... &start=100

I can't provide links to the other stuff about John and his interaction with the stake president because they are on private forums.

[_harmony]

The trick is knowing who to be obedient to... God or the church.

if we took church out of the equation, God would become undefined and inconsistent due to everyone's differing views and opinions.

Not to me.

[_Kishkumen]

Can you provide links, Fifth?

cwalds posts are here (this where he says this goes at least as high as the area authority level): http://www.staylds.com/forum/viewtopic. ... &start=100

I can't provide links to the other stuff about John and his interaction with the stake president because they are on private forums.

Thanks, Fifth.

I think the LDS Church is really shooting itself in the foot... AGAIN.

You go after a group of people who sponsor a site called "StayLDS"?

Uh, can anyone say PR nightmare? Witch hunt? McCarthyesque purge?

[_harmony]

You go after a group of people who sponsor a site called "StayLDS"?

Uh, can anyone say PR nightmare? Witch hunt? McCarthyesque purge?

It's a problem only if the press knows and is interested. Otherwise, who's going to know?