Proof Of Everything

[_Nightlion]

First off, I do not think your minimalist statement quite covers everyday good and evil between family, friends, co-workers, neighbors and strangers on the street. Not even politics, but more like out to conquer or save a nation from being conquered.

It covers both. The same game-theoretical rules apply to both kinds of relations.

You really think moral memes are on the rise and that because the world is getting smaller? Perhaps in the over forties group. We see a greater proliferation of immoral or amoral memes in the younger set.

I was speaking specifically of "moral memes that help us suppress our primal violence"-- in other words, those that promote cooperation among human beings rather than those that promote puritanical divisions among them. Moral codes are increasingly tending toward tolerance and permissiveness rather than judgmentalism, which I see as a positive development that promotes peaceful cooperation among people of different backgrounds.

If skipping stones is all you are willing to do, well, fine I will let ya'.
How I do wish someone would take the plunge. Not asking for a baptismal commitment you understand. Just a lot more depth.

[_Nightlion]

Hello Mr. Nightlion,

The only real proof is the Apocalrock. People need to wake up.

V/R
Dr. Cam

Wont be derailed. Not yet anyway.

[_Some Schmo]

I straighten things out and you mess it up again. Sheesh Schmo?

"Straighten things out?"

Why am I getting a picture of my 10 year old trying to convince me she really did clean her room?

[_Inconceivable]

If humans were so devilish, why have they not destroyed each other long ago?

If you look hard enough, you will find that most people desire to be good, not evil.

This is a good demonstration of my point.

Why are they evil? Why are the good?

Think about the young teenager..

You got a really fine world and wonderful people indeed. No devils in sight. Uh huh!

Sad story. crap happens, nightlion. Let it go. People make regrettable mistakes (including the parents). Evaluate and learn from these things instead of simply blaming them on someone else, the devil or "nature" and you might begin to make the world a better place. Take it upon yourself to be a part of the solution instead of floating around conjuring up images of clowns on rocks.

You seem to be one of these good people I'm referring to. Your nuttyness is getting in the way though.

[_Nightlion]

You seem to be one of these good people I'm referring to. Your nuttyness is getting in the way though.

There is nothing even slightly nutty about my Proof Of Everything thesis.

The proof of everything IS the fact that there is a duality in us. This means that neither good nor bad can be who we are because for us to be a genuine self we must possess a singularity. All other forms of life express a solid singular sort of existence. Only humanity exhibits cardinal spiritual shifts constantly from pole to pole. This proves we are not alone. We respond to spiritual influences and thereby prove the existence of God and the devil. Only this can account for intrinsically spiritual shifts from love to hate, from wholesomeness to viciousness, from edification to defilement.

I bet this can be reduced to a mathematical expression. In physics we discover things by how something else is affected. We are affected by the presence and constant influence of the spiritual reality of God and a spiritual reality of evil.

Refute?

[_CaliforniaKid]

If skipping stones is all you are willing to do, well, fine I will let ya'.
How I do wish someone would take the plunge. Not asking for a baptismal commitment you understand. Just a lot more depth.

More depth, eh? Well then, let me put it this way.

Sometimes, there is an evolutionary advantage to killing your neighbor and stealing his resources, including perhaps his wife. You're less likely to get away with this today than two thousand years ago, but back in the good old days this was often an effective evolutionary strategy.

Other times, there is an evolutionary advantage to be gained from betraying your neighbor by secretly sleeping with his wife. If you get away with it, then he will invest his own resources raising your child, and you will be free to spend your own resources reproducing with other women.

Still other times, there is an evolutionary advantage to being a "cooperator" who commits to one woman for a lifetime. Women have an evolutionary interest in being impregnated by a male who will stick around and help raise and protect the children, so they are more likely to willingly couple with cooperators.

Since all three of these strategies are effective under different circumstances, the beings that are best-adapted for survival will be those who are capable of employing all three tactics. They will be beings capable of lying and killing or cooperating and telling the truth, as the circumstances require. In other words, they will be rational beings with dual impulses, capable of choosing between those impulses as necessary.

Peace,

-Chris

[_Nightlion]

If skipping stones is all you are willing to do, well, fine I will let ya'.
How I do wish someone would take the plunge. Not asking for a baptismal commitment you understand. Just a lot more depth.

More depth, eh? Well then, let me put it this way.

Sometimes, there is an evolutionary advantage to killing your neighbor and stealing his resources, including perhaps his wife. You're less likely to get away with this today than two thousand years ago, but back in the good old days this was often an effective evolutionary strategy.

Other times, there is an evolutionary advantage to be gained from betraying your neighbor by secretly sleeping with his wife. If you get away with it, then he will invest his own resources raising your child, and you will be free to spend your own resources reproducing with other women.

Still other times, there is an evolutionary advantage to being a "cooperator" who commits to one woman for a lifetime. Women have an evolutionary interest in being impregnated by a male who will stick around and help raise and protect the children, so they are more likely to willingly couple with cooperators.

Since all three of these strategies are effective under different circumstances, the beings that are best-adapted for survival will be those who are capable of employing all three tactics. They will be beings capable of lying and killing or cooperating and telling the truth, as the circumstances require. In other words, they will be rational beings with dual impulses, capable of choosing between those impulses as necessary.

Peace,

-Chris

All's fair in love and war, eh?

You are still too shallow to win an award of complete ownership of good and evil to singular beings. Our experiences demonstrate that the effect of spiritual influence is not the result of cognitive or even instinctive choices but doing things that we wont not to do. Who wants to break down and castigate some loved one because our patience, pride, money or sanity is threatened somehow? Why do we road rage at slight inconveniences when in a rush? These are the confines of our daily existence and such demand a finer toothed comb to untangle the intrigues of human volatility.

What natural selection adaptation is achieved to sacrifice our time assisting a stranded traveler? A lost child? A wayfaring soul? The poles of human spiritual influence are too wide apart to be natural at all. This distance betrays the existence of another source. The observation of human acts prove that we are being acted upon from without. And so there exists positive markers of the reality of God and anti-god.

[_CaliforniaKid]

You are still too shallow to win an award of complete ownership of good and evil to singular beings. Our experiences demonstrate that the effect of spiritual influence is not the result of cognitive or even instinctive choices but doing things that we wont not to do. Who wants to break down and castigate some loved one because our patience, pride, money or sanity is threatened somehow? Why do we road rage at slight inconveniences when in a rush? These are the confines of our daily existence and such demand a finer toothed comb to untangle the intrigues of human volatility.

Anger is unpleasant, but evolutionarily advantageous. If someone wrongs us, it is in our interest to make sure they never wrong us again. So we punish their wrongdoing by reacting with anger, harsh words, and sometimes even violence. This reaction is biologically hardwired, which is why it sometimes occurs even when you don't want it to.

What natural selection adaptation is achieved to sacrifice our time assisting a stranded traveler? A lost child? A wayfaring soul?

Altruism is especially advantageous when it's done for someone in your family group, since their genes are your genes. However, it can also be advantageous when done for complete strangers, because 1) there's always the possibility that the beneficiary will reciprocate, and 2) altruistic actions demonstrate a willingness to self-sacrifice, thereby winning the trust of potential mates.

[_Nightlion]

You are still too shallow to win an award of complete ownership of good and evil to singular beings. Our experiences demonstrate that the effect of spiritual influence is not the result of cognitive or even instinctive choices but doing things that we wont not to do. Who wants to break down and castigate some loved one because our patience, pride, money or sanity is threatened somehow? Why do we road rage at slight inconveniences when in a rush? These are the confines of our daily existence and such demand a finer toothed comb to untangle the intrigues of human volatility.

Anger is unpleasant, but evolutionarily advantageous. If someone wrongs us, it is in our interest to make sure they never wrong us again. So we punish their wrongdoing by reacting with anger, harsh words, and sometimes even violence. This reaction is biologically hardwired, which is why it sometimes occurs even when you don't want it to.

What natural selection adaptation is achieved to sacrifice our time assisting a stranded traveler? A lost child? A wayfaring soul?

Altruism is especially advantageous when it's done for someone in your family group, since their genes are your genes. However, it can also be advantageous when done for complete strangers, because 1) there's always the possibility that the beneficiary will reciprocate, and 2) altruistic actions demonstrate a willingness to self-sacrifice, thereby winning the trust of potential mates.

Obviously you intend to monorail this thread with your one track of reproductive advantage. I can see why scholars are forced to make simple points by writing an exhaustive volume. Sort of like splitting hemlock knots with a corn dodger for a wedge and a pumpkin for a beatle otherwise. You got to hammer with the iron of welded bits and pieces of overwhelming weight. And then you still do not know if your point is taken or if the people are mostly taken with you artistic welding.