Why All Mormons Are Liars

[Guest]

BKP sums it pretty well right here:
http://LDS.org/liahona/2006/08/the-gift ... ptism+fire

So what did he miss, Nightlion?

Great, is this going to take a while?

Okay, ready. Packer quotes scripture and the words of Joseph Smith quite adeptly. In other words he can say but can he do according to that which is written?

I took a few quotes from his talk to make points with:

Boyd K Packer 2003 Mission Presidents Workshop

You can receive this great blessing—to become familiar with the still, small voice and learn that this voice will tell you all things that you must do. The word we use to describe this communication is promptings, the way we feel. These promptings can come many times, through many experiences. That is the voice of the Lord speaking.
Fix it in the front of your minds so that when you say one, you say the other, and when you think one, you think the other. Then you will begin to feel and understand, and the promptings will come.
You may learn by trial and error and say: “I knew I shouldn’t have done that. I knew I shouldn’t have!” How did you know? Because you knew. You were being prompted.

Or you will say regretfully, “I knew I should have done that and didn’t.” How will you know? You are being worked upon by the Spirit.

The only thing Elder Packer equates to the gift and power of the Holy Ghost is mere promptings of the still small voice. Who doesn't say, "Augh, I knew I should not have done that?" Great gospel of the morning Packer the Holy Ghost is not how WE FEEL. All humans feel.

D&C 85: 6
6 Yea, thus saith the still small voice, which whispereth through and pierceth all things, and often times it maketh my bones to quake while it maketh manifest, saying:

It is obvious that Packer is not talking about the same still small voice that Joseph was familiar with. This was not how Joseph felt at the moment but how the Spirit caused him to feel. Big difference.

He must minimize to justify the Church's lack of power in all things Holy Ghost so to make it fit his reality. A good conscience and the better angel of our nature does not count for having the gift and power of the Holy Ghost. He clearly is incompetent and inexperienced.

Let's see if he can add anything to this.

If people are properly taught, they never will fall away: “And as sure as the Lord liveth [that is an oath], so sure as many as believed, or as many as were brought to the knowledge of the truth, through the preaching of Ammon and his brethren, according to the spirit of revelation and of prophecy, and the power of God working miracles in them—yea, I say unto you, as the Lord liveth [a second oath], as many of the Lamanites as believed in their preaching, and were converted unto the Lord, never did fall away” (Alma 23:6; emphasis added).
Those who have been taught and who receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, the baptism of fire, will never fall away. They will be connected to the Almighty, who will guide them in their lives.

Twice Packer suggests that 'teaching' properly is what converts and assures one has the Holy Ghost, the baptism of fire, and such will never fall away.

In other words he is administering a priestcraft that if "I" tell you that you have the Holy Ghost, the baptism of fire, then you can trust forever that you most assuredly do and can depend upon all your promptings to be valid.

There is nothing of note said more. He never gets down and dirty about miraculous conversions by the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost. No acts of sanctification. No newness of life. No extraordinary gifts. No prophesying, No revelations, No scriptures opened up in illuminations of insights and doctrine. No preaching by the power of the Holy Ghost in the demonstration of the power of God unto conversion. No, nothing but what all humans possess every day. A conscience.

Notice that he does not trust God to do the convincing but rather teaching of the LDS consensus is what must be relied upon. This is about as close as the devil will permit his servants to get to blind the eyes of the people and make them expect less and actually believe less and less. In fact allegiance to the Church is what assures that one has the Holy Ghost. How convenient.

You might be fooled because he quotes good scripture. He is talking about it up and down but he is talking like he is making it up as he goes along, clueless about its reality. He denies the power of godliness by not being frank and earnest to have everyone experience this mighty change of heart, that roots out of their breast that wicked spirit and gives them a new heart to love God. This not of their own discipline but of the gift of God to raise them up to a higher state of righteousness which unless this be the case they can in no wise inherit the kingdom of God. No anxiety about this fact at all. Just believe him because he is an apostle. Trust in that alone.

He quotes scriptures that say it right but he will not bring it home to discern and judge if the people are DOING according to that which is written. It is assumed if they are taught and if they accept what they are taught then that is all that need to be done or expected to be done. That is all he offers. Is is pure crap and hypocrisy with scripture clusters emblazoned on his CTR lapel escutcheons.

This is Babylon, the Mother of Harlots and Apostasy.

Mosiah 27:25-26
25 And the Lord said unto me: Marvel not that all mankind, yea, men and women, all nations, kindreds, tongues and people, must be born again; yea, born of God, changed from their carnal and fallen state, to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God, becoming his sons and daughters;
26 And thus they become new creatures; and unless they do this, they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.

Does this sound like merely being taught to accept a prompting in you own conscience? No way.

[_Gadianton]

Nightlion,

You were kind of on a roll and gave some pretty interesting context to your story. Now you are backpedaling and claiming that the book you were excommunicated for had nothing to do with your problems in church, and that all really stemmed from your preaching of what appears to be the gospel all Mormons believe, to those I suppose lacking the extra-spiritual dimension to handle a game of spot the difference with the Apocalrock.

I think it's fairly clear that given I'm an avid atheist who wouldn't believe the husk of your Christ is fit for worms let alone a Eucharist for reasonable people, that the Holy Ghost isn't going to help me see the difference between your gospel basics and Hinckley's. So, if you'd like to dumb it down for us Gentiles, I'd be interested in what you have to say. Otherwise, I guess you can carry on entertaining yourself with riddles and boasting about your powers and I'll go back to reading the other threads. What else can I do?

[Guest]

Nightlion,

You were kind of on a roll and gave some pretty interesting context to your story. Now you are backpedaling and claiming that the book you were excommunicated for had nothing to do with your problems in church, and that all really stemmed from your preaching of what appears to be the gospel all Mormons believe, to those I suppose lacking the extra-spiritual dimension to handle a game of spot the difference with the Apocalrock.

I think it's fairly clear that given I'm an avid atheist who wouldn't believe the husk of your Christ is fit for worms let alone a Eucharist for reasonable people, that the Holy Ghost isn't going to help me see the difference between your gospel basics and Hinckley's. So, if you'd like to dumb it down for us Gentiles, I'd be interested in what you have to say. Otherwise, I guess you can carry on entertaining yourself with riddles and boasting about your powers and I'll go back to reading the other threads. What else can I do?

Me? Backpedaling? Sorry it took me so long. Glad to see that you actually did read some of my stuff.

eta: You cannot call it backpedaling when it was you own conjecture I am correcting.

[_Nightlion]

One more thing about the Apostle Packer indoctrination program for Mission Presidents in 2003.

When parents are teaching their children and when missionaries are teaching investigators, preparing them for baptism by water, they must also think of the gift of the Holy Ghost—baptism by fire. Think of it as one sentence. First comes the baptism of water and then the baptism of fire.

By telling teachers to think of the gift of the Holy Ghost-the baptism of fire, he is changing the mindset and consensus of LDSthink of the Church members to assume that they all have received the baptism of fire by the act of the laying on of hands in confirmation of the gift of the Holy Ghost.

This is a lie he is layering upon the innocent by simple nomenclature. I think it not unreasonable to assume that he is reacting to the many complaints that the Brethren have received over the years about why the Church never emphasizes the baptism of fire.

Since I alone have been the ONLY online champion of the gospel with the great emphasis on the baptism of fire as a ratification of having received the gospel correctly; this renaming Packer wants ingrained in the LDS psyche could be a reaction to my ministry.

As already shown the only expectation in evidence to Packer's gospel of the baptism of fire is a conscience prompted with supposedly guided thoughts. Nothing sanctifying, nothing miraculously life changing, nothing that roots out of our breasts a wicked heart and gives us a new heart filled with charity and the love of God, no revelations of pure knowledge like the flow of the Missouri River. Just the subjective conscience people had all along, but now to be arrogantly believed by priestcraft's edict that human thought is to be forever more the earnest of having received the baptism of fire.

Slick arrogance pressing its weight to stanch the bleeding doubts. This after quoting abundantly to prove he is sinning against the gospel in full awareness. How evil can one man get? I rather doubt his rephrasing really took hold.......did it?