Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

[_ludwigm]

As for this calling women bitches thing, all I can say is let whoever is without sin among you cast the first stone.
I don't think I know a grown man who hasn't at least once referred to a woman as a bitch.

I didn't take part in this thread, really I didn't want to do it now.
I am answering for You only.

I am without this sin, in a certain sense.
Yes, I called girls, women and animals bitch (even more derogatory terms). But never téte-á-téte. NEVER.

On internet, this expression means writing on blogs, screenname-to-screenname or avatar-to-avatar. (by the way my face is visible on my avatar...)

So, I have a stone to throw.
Unused.

... I'm afraid there's not a single minute available for message board posting...

Maybe at the first streak of dawn...

Matins.
n. (used with a sing. or pl. verb)
1.
_ 1. Ecclesiastical. The office that formerly constituted together with lauds the first of the seven canonical hours.
_ 2. The time of day appointed for this service, traditionally midnight or 2 A.M. but often sunrise.
2. often Matins See Morning Prayer.

[_Kevin Graham]

If this is really Mrs. Schryver, and not another one of Will's sock puppets (and Will can take comfort in the fact that we'll never really know for sure) then it is clear she hasn't read the first post entirely. Does she really think that all Will did was say the word "bitch"? No no, he did more than that.

So you're in your fifties, eh? My my. Have you heard what husband thinks about the aging female body? Do you condone his attacks including sexual innuendo, against the elderly women on this forum? Does Will cringe when he watches you bathe as well? I suppose you could be an exception to the rule and have the body of a twenty year old, but then your Facebook photo would strongly suggest otherwise.

So the B word doesn't phase you, because Will used to threaten children who littered, once upon a time. OK. That sounds overly macho for a man who is too afraid to deal with grown men on this forum, but if you say so...

But I'm curious. How would you like it if someone here called you a whore or a c--- for no reason whatsoever, as your husband has done? You say some people deserve to be called names, which suggests you agree with Will's reasons for doing so. Is that a safe assumption? You didn't comment on any of this stuff which makes me wonder (assuming you're really his wife) if you really read through MsJack's post. I agree that calling someone a bitch is hardly earth shattering, but that is beside the point isn't it? Will has made himself a public figure, representing the Mormon faith and belittling everyone who ever left it. Even the ex-Mormons know his bishop and Stake President would be appalled by his behavior. His example was embarrassing for many in your faith who have made their concerns known, and now he drags his wife in here to show the world that his disgusting behavior can be rationalized and dismissed by someone besides Wade Englund and Loran Blood.

But I guess if we think about it, it would make sense that Will's wife would be the obedient and submissive "wench" he occasionally describes, forced to tolerate and conform to his overwhelmingly despicable personality. He really has you whipped, huh?

How sad.

The plight of the Mormon woman lives on...

[_Kishkumen]

Greetings, Madame Schryver:

Thanks for dropping by. I only have a few comments.

Speaking of people who are sometimes insufferable bitches.

I wouldn't have addressed any of this material on Will's habitual name calling, but your comment quoted above suggests to me that you have an inaccurate impression of Will's behavior on this board. We are not talking about Will's temper getting the better of him, or him responding to a single woman who happened to be in a bad mood one day; we are talking about his regular behavior. Calling a woman a bitch or a whore is consistent with the whole of his activities here on this board.

A more high maintenance husband you will never find. Some days I'd like to see what I could get to sell his cranky ass down the dirty river here in the Great and Spacious Trailer Park (kind of a funny name-lol). Oh, I could tell you stories that would rock your world. Doctor Scratch could make one of his drawrings (spoken like Mike Myers on SNL) illustrating me in negotiations with Charon to sell Will's high-maintenance soul down the river for all the things I've had to put up with over the years. Being all understanding and tolerant while he was doing what he damn well pleased when he damn well pleased to do it.

I wouldn't have imagined anything differently. You have my condolences.

But you guys think that bitch stuff is bad?!!! I'll show you bad. Like the time he uncorked a sailor's montage of special words in front of me and the kids at Dead Horse Point State Park and then threatened to toss 4 scared-to-death BYU kids off the edge for littering. Yeah, that one was touch and go for a while. But finally cooler heads prevailed (mine) and I dragged the hot head home and finally calmed him down. He swears to this day that he really would have only swung one of them over the edge a couple times, just to scare them all into never doing it again. But you can never be certain when it comes to my husband. If he'd found out one of them had read Vogel's Joseph Smith biography, it might have been curtains.

Yes, clearly Will is a hothead who enjoys intimidating people whom he judges to be in the wrong. And, whoa!, is he completely intolerant of people who don't agree with him about Mormonism! I would say that your unflattering portrait of your husband is completely in agreement with my impressions. This leads me to conclude that you are actually his wife.

Well, thanks for protecting your family and innocent bystanders from his rage. I would hate to see him in jail or someone dead because he couldn't control himself. Thanks so much for doing your best to keep him in check.

Sorry I can't stay to chat some more, but I have a pretty full life right now and I'm afraid there's not a single minute available for message board posting.

Thanks for dropping by. It sounds to me like you are one of the many unsung heroes of the world. Having married a reckless character, you do your best to keep him from unraveling completely. My guess is that you ought to support him in his adherence to Mormonism, restrain him from getting violent with people, and just pray it all works out. I would hate to imagine what would happen if he should lose his testimony.

Regards,

K

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Hello,

Just when I didn't think Mr. Schryver could get any more pathetic, he creates a sockpuppet account & uses his wife's good name to:

1) Excuse his behavior

2) Relay another William Schryver is a Badass story

3) Fail a la The Lost Tooth story

You know. He could've just apologized and moved on. He keeps digging that hole deeper and deeper.

V/R
Dr. Cam

[_Kevin Graham]

Hello,

Just when I didn't think Mr. Schryver could get any more pathetic, he creates a sockpuppet account & uses his wife's good name to:

1) Excuse his behavior

2) Relay another William Schryver is a Badass story

3) Fail a la The Lost Tooth story

You know. He could've just apologized and moved on. He keeps digging that hole deeper and deeper.

V/R
Dr. Cam

LOL. Yes, I thought #2 was a nice touch. And so typical of Will...

[_Ceeboo]

Just when I thought this thread could not possibly get any more bizarre.


Now that I have just wasted another 38 seconds of my life typing this post, I will go find a thread/topic/discussion that has nothing to do with William's tractor, William's prom pictures, Willaim's digestive tract, William's vacation resume, William's dental record, William's shoe size, or William's lunch date.


Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Belinda Schryver]

Kishkumen,

Will has told me so much about you. Can I call you “Kishy?”

One thing Will told me before I ever posted is that, no matter what I said and how I said it, it would be twisted into something it wasn’t in order to fit your agenda. Boy was he right on that one!

You see, Kishy, most of what I wrote was tongue in cheek. For sure, Will is a complex, high-maintenance, extremely intelligent, talented, artistic man. But he’s hardly abusive. He’s gentle, passionate, caring, loving, supportive, loyal, courageous, etc. Nothing like the cartoon monster you people make him out to be. He is more of a real man than the immasculated males who are the majority of the 20 – 45 year olds in the world today. I wouldn’t trade him for any of the soft wimpy men that are so common these days.

Sure, he was outraged back in 1993 when he saw those 4 BYU boys vandalizing a place that we hold almost sacred, and he used some salty language towards them (justified, I think). What is funny is how their reaction was similar to what I have seen here. The BYU vandals (they had not only thrown trash over the edge, but we came along the path just as they were heaving an old log bench over) didn’t appreciate the seriousness of their offense at all. One of them spoke up and tried to criticize Will for his language, saying something like “I can’t believe you would talk like that in front of your wife.” Their distorted sense of morality was lost on them.

One last thing and my time on your stupid message board is over.

Kishy wrote: “We are not talking about Will's temper getting the better of him, or him responding to a single woman who happened to be in a bad mood one day; we are talking about his regular behavior. Calling a woman a bitch or a whore is consistent with the whole of his activities here on this board.”

You see, Kishy, I know this is not true. You can’t pull one over on me like you might with less-informed people who come to this place. If this were true, you people wouldn’t be reduced to dredging up the same handful of Will’s old posts every time you start one of these “Will is a misogynist potty mouth” threads. (I can’t believe how many of them there have been! Don't you people have anything better to do?)

I know very well that “Calling a woman a bitch or a whore is NOT consistent with the whole of his activities here on this board.” Not at all. Will is anything but a misogynist. Just the opposite, if you ask me. His three daughters and I know exactly what he’s like. No one knows his “regular behavior” like we do, least of all the people on this message board who hate him so deeply because of how he defends the church.

Just like the “harmony” woman who accused Will of using the awful “C” word (which I know for a fact Will would NEVER have done in a million years) you are also a liar (I wonder how you live with yourself), and I've got to believe that all the fair-minded people who read these things written about Will on this message board will come to see what a terrible set of liars and deceivers so many of you are.

Good riddance to you.

[_Hades]

Hello,

Just when I didn't think Mr. Schryver could get any more pathetic, he creates a sockpuppet account & uses his wife's good name to:

1) Excuse his behavior

2) Relay another William Schryver is a Badass story

3) Fail a la The Lost Tooth story

You know. He could've just apologized and moved on. He keeps digging that hole deeper and deeper.

V/R
Dr. Cam

William seems to have a real need for people to believe he is a badass. That's usually a sign of insecurity.

[_Kevin Graham]

Can there be any doubt that this was Will pretending to be his own wife now?

[Guest]

Can I call you “Kishy?”

Why not? As long as you don't mind me addressing you as "Belinda."

One thing Will told me before I ever posted is that, no matter what I said and how I said it, it would be twisted into something it wasn’t in order to fit your agenda. Boy was he right on that one!

Twist to fit my agenda? No. I think it would be more accurate to say that Will's (and now your) comments are often inadvertently revealing. No twisting is necessary.

You see, Kishy, most of what I wrote was tongue in cheek. For sure, Will is a complex, high-maintenance, extremely intelligent, talented, artistic man. But he’s hardly abusive. He’s gentle, passionate, caring, loving, supportive, loyal, courageous, etc. Nothing like the cartoon monster you people make him out to be.

Well, yes, I mean, who could possibly be considered a real man that does not lose his cool in response to the injustices he perceives? LOL.

I am surprised to find you calling my perception of Will to be a "cartoon monster." I think you will find, if you were to take the time to peruse all of my comments on the topic of your husband, that most of my criticism regards the persona he employs on these discussion boards. I have, on more than one occasion, praised his faithfulness as a home teacher, the impression he gives of his love of his family, and his insights on the topic of Mormonism. When it comes to how he treats ex-LDS, doubting LDS, or disillusioned LDS, his behavior is on the whole worthy of opprobrium.

He is more of a real man than the immasculated males who are the majority of the 20 – 45 year olds in the world today. I wouldn’t trade him for any of the soft wimpy men that are so common these days.

Well, I guess you have chosen to accept his foibles so that you can enjoy his rough ways. Whatever does it for you is your business, eh? You fell for the bad boy, you complain about it in a way that should signal to all of us that he is really a diamond in the rough, and you expect us to get the message without interpreting these charming little episodes of abuse, neglect, and public humiliation as anything anyone should be concerned about.

Hey, we all do our best to get along. I am not judging you. But I am not obliged to buy into your story either. I interpret things as I read them, and you have been a generous source.

Sure, he was outraged back in 1993 when he saw those 4 BYU boys vandalizing a place that we hold almost sacred, and he used some salty language towards them (justified, I think). What is funny is how their reaction was similar to what I have seen here. The BYU vandals (they had not only thrown trash over the edge, but we came along the path just as they were heaving an old log bench over) didn’t appreciate the seriousness of their offense at all. One of them spoke up and tried to criticize Will for his language, saying something like “I can’t believe you would talk like that in front of your wife.” Their distorted sense of morality was lost on them.

I am afraid I don't buy into your very Will-Schryverian attempt to use this unverifiable tale as some kind of metaphor for this board. Clearly you expect us to accept this bizarre correlation of littering BYU students and the activities here.

Well, Belinda, this is not a "sacred place." It is a message board for free conversation. Will's litter is as welcome as anyone else's, but we are not obliged to praise it. Nor are we obliged to accept your or your husband's views about what is moral and what is not. If you had hoped to chasten us with your judgment, you are in for a real disappointment. It is indeed amusing that you presume to have any basis to judge the morality of those who post here. What do you know about all of this? What Will told you? Or are you a regular lurker here?

My experience of your husband's track record here, which I probably know as well or better than you do, is that he could stand to exercise a lot more wisdom, understanding, and compassion when he deals with people who have suffered a loss of faith. Personally, I don't care precisely which words he used, or how offensive they appear; it is the obvious lack of charity in his so-called defense of the faith that is problematic.

You see, Kishy, I know this is not true. You can’t pull one over on me like you might with less-informed people who come to this place. If this were true, you people wouldn’t be reduced to dredging up the same handful of Will’s old posts every time you start one of these “Will is a misogynist potty mouth” threads. (I can’t believe how many of them there have been! Don't you people have anything better to do?)

I didn't start this thread. A regular female poster started this thread. She is a generally well-respected person among both LDS and non-LDS people (on and off of this board). The question she was posing was whether it is a problem for self-appointed defenders of Mormonism, who have a close relationship with the apologetic apparatus of the LDS Church, to use language like your husband's online. It is a legitimate question. If you like, you can address it.

My concern is with the fundamentals that underlie that issue--the kind of concern that Elder Ballard recently raised, namely: does the way the defense of the LDS faith is conducted online have an impact on the individual defender and the LDS Church? Should defenders of the faith behave in a Christlike fashion as they go about their defense?

My personal opinion is that your husband, for all his other fine qualities, falls woefully short in that area--to the point where he arguably could do more harm than good. In that judgment, there are several LDS apologists who are inclined to agree with me, and for very good reasons. In the end, I have decided that the matter is best left to these men and women, since they are the good people whom the other apologists and LDS authorities are likely to listen to. I doubt they will listen to me.

Your anecdotes offered corroboration of the notion that your husband is excitable and has a problem exercising good judgment when he perceives others are doing something wrong. Obviously this does not make him some kind of cartoon monster. It does, however, limit his usefulness in dealing with the tricky job of apologetics.

No one knows his “regular behavior” like we do, least of all the people on this message board who hate him so deeply because of how he defends the church.

I am happy that he is a great guy to you and your daughters. What matters most to you guys is that you are OK with your roles in the home and that you all agree on those issues. That does not mean that other women, who do not choose to live by the same guidelines, should accept being treated poorly by your husband. A gentleman would not behave in that way to any woman.

In any case, I don't hate your husband. I disapprove of the fact that he uses apologetics as an excuse to indulge his appetite for abusing others. He could just as easily defend the Church without doing these things, as do many other apologists, but he seems to enjoy the satisfaction of treating others poorly as much or more than the apologetics. Strike that--he enjoys abusing others more than apologetics, an activity he has claimed he will soon abandon.

Just like the “harmony” woman who accused Will of using the awful “C” word (which I know for a fact Will would NEVER have done in a million years) you are also a liar (I wonder how you live with yourself), and I've got to believe that all the fair-minded people who read these things written about Will on this message board will come to see what a terrible set of liars and deceivers so many of you are.

LOL. Sure, Belinda. Whatever helps you keep it together. If blaming us for Will's foibles helps you get by, then so be it. I really don't care how you live with the choices you've made. That is your business.