CFR - Simon Belmont

[_just me]

Simon, do you believe that Joseph Smith was justified in breaking the law against glass-looking for hire? Or was that a mistake.

[_Themis]

Gee, then Isaac Hale must have just been totally unreasonable for not wanting his daughter Emma to marry JSJr. Isaac reportedly thought JSJr's profession of money digging/glass looking for hire to be an unsavory and disreputable one. And then there was Josiah Stowell's nephew that complained to authorities, which resulted in legal charges being brought against JSJr for his glass-looking for hire.

After hearing 12 witnesses on the matter, the judge did not dismiss the charges against JSJr. So doesn't sound like all 12 were singing JSJr's praises.

SB seems to ignore the evidence which shows that yes some did feel deceived or that he was deceiving people. I don't recall being that bad as a youth. I don't recall committing adultery either with so many women behind my wife's back, and behind some of these other good husbands backs. I don't recall making so many things up like the Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham, Zelph, etc. Surely God could have found someone much better then this. I am not asking for perfection. Only that they should be at a minimum better then me. I really don't think it is to much to ask, and God would have to be stupid to pick someone so much worse.

[_thews]

The bottom line is that Joseph Smith made many of the same mistakes you or I make. Trying to earn a living in the poverty-stricken frontier America would drive someone to do almost anything for a job -- even if it's only $14 per month.

When one earns that money for being paid to see evil treasure guardians through his seer stones (what you call the Urim and Thummim), it changes your ridiculous assertion that "folk" magic is somehow different than "black" magic.

The Smith family sincerely believed in many folk magic practices, and Joseph Smith probably noticed that some people around him were utilizing this folk magic to find things for people, who would then pay them.

Does that make it right? No.

This one is to be referenced at a later date. I'll give you props for telling the truth and admitting it was wrong.

[_thews]

You posed this question: "Does that make it right?" and answered it in the negative.... What did you mean by that?

It means it isn't necessarily a reputable occupation.

Why must you continue to give yourself an out by adding "necessarily" to the above? Glass-looking was against the law... does that make it not necessarily against the law?

Apparently you don't think that this has anything to do with intentional deception. So what else is there? In what sense was Joseph's behavior "not right"?

In all of my Joseph Smith studies I have not found anything which would lead me to conclude that he intentionally deceived anyone. I believe he believed he could help people find their lost items.

By what power did Joseph Smith use to help people "see" things with his seer stones in a stove-pipe hat?

[_Simon Belmont]

Hey thews, are you going to post that same page from the History of the Church that you so love to post?

[_thews]

Hey thews, are you going to post that same page from the History of the Church that you so love to post?

"Answering" questions with questions again Simon? Did I ask you a question? ...doesn't matter... I got you where I want you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM_OWaItNJM

Folk magic = black magic.

[_sock puppet]

Simon,

What religions were started by charlatans, other than the Mormon Church by JSJr?
















Answer: Probably all of them.

[_just me]

Simon,

What religions were started by charlatans, other than the Mormon Church by JSJr?

Answer: Probably all of them.

No, silly. There is no "Mormon Church."

[_Inconceivable]

The bottom line is that Joseph Smith made many of the same mistakes you or I make. Trying to earn a living in the poverty-stricken frontier America would drive someone to do almost anything for a job -- even if it's only $14 per month. The Smith family sincerely believed in many folk magic practices, and Joseph Smith probably noticed that some people around him were utilizing this folk magic to find things for people, who would then pay them.

Does that make it right? No.

Make what right?
Simon, specifically, are you saying that Smith did not have the gift of finding things for people?

Once again, so far you are absolutely unclear as to what you consider failure and mistakes (your words) in Smith's behavior.

And what mistakes do you and I make, Simon? Name them. I'm interested whether I have anything in common with you or Smith at all. You see, when we speak of Smith, there are some very sobering assertions concerning his behavior. No one is here because Smith left the water running or ran over a cat.

[_Inconceivable]

Hello Mr. Inconceivable,

I believe one of the core Mopologist doctrines is an informal logical fallacy known as the Incomplete Assertion. A complete assertion, such as "Joseph Smith told so-and-so a lie on such-and-such date." could be investigated and possibly confirmed. That's anathema to the Mopologist since remaining ambiguous is of the utmost importance when defending his religion.

Thus, saying "Joseph Smith did things I don't like very much." is an incomplete assertion, and so it can't be refuted. He gains, in his mind, moral authority because he has criticized his own faith, but in reality he's done no such thing and only furthers his agenda of apologia.

V/R
Dr. Cam

I think you are absolutely correct in your statement. However, I am hoping that perhaps Simon will surprise me (and everyone else) with a bit of honesty.