BYU's Dr. John L. Lund Arrested.

[_Quasimodo]

I don't think it's irrelevant that you found the online Cruise Lady fliers advertising their connection. I wasn't aware of that, and it's interesting. I'd certainly like to hear what he knows about the matter, but I don't think that he will say anything here.

It's your thread, Quasimodo, and I loathe stepping into the role of "board nanny." This was news to me and I'm glad you brought it to my attention.

I just want to encourage people to make it a thread about John L. Lund instead of a thread about DCP. That's all.

I don't see that you're being a board nanny, MsJack. I agree that DCP should not be painted with the same brush just because he is associated with Dr. Lund and works through the same organizations.

I do think, since the news about Dr. Lund is now receiving world wide attention, that it might be appropriate for Dr. Peterson to make some comment. It is, of course, his choice whether to do so or not.

[_Doctor Scratch]

for what it's worth, I believe that there is a certain amount of tension between Lund and the MI apologists---including DCP. The fact that both DCP and Lund conduct tours of the Middle East may be just one reason among many, though I do think that there have been ego-related conflicts involved. All of this is simply to day that I agree with MsJack that DCP is unlikely to say anything. Really, the only time DCP would ever chime in on something like this is if the person was one of his friends/associates, and I just think there is too much personal distance between Dr. P. and Bro. Lund.

[_Quasimodo]

for what it's worth, I believe that there is a certain amount of tension between Lund and the MI apologists---including DCP. The fact that both DCP and Lund conduct tours of the Middle East may be just one reason among many, though I do think that there have been ego-related conflicts involved. All of this is simply to day that I agree with MsJack that DCP is unlikely to say anything. Really, the only time DCP would ever chime in on something like this is if the person was one of his friends/associates, and I just think there is too much personal distance between Dr. P. and Bro. Lund.

Thanks for the insight, Doctor Scratch. I'll expect no response from Dr. Peterson. I wonder if there will be a statement from BYU? I guess it will depend on local news coverage.

[_kamenraider]

When I was acquainted with him, he was teaching Institute and would sometimes plug things such as books he'd written, or tours. One time he had bought an original 1830 copy of the Book of Mormon that was falling apart, and was selling the individual pages to people at Institute classes. He tried to sell me one, but I told him "No thanks." I would imagine that in his mind he wasn't really making a profit on the antiquities (considering all his tour expenses, etc.) and that he might have been buying from some shady dealers but maybe took their assurances of legitimacy at face value or something. I think he might've known better if he'd stopped and thought about the ethical aspect of it.

[_Kishkumen]

A sudden flury of activity has been reported at the Department of Near Eastern Studies at BYU. Several professors have been seen carrying large boxes of what appears to be ancient artifacts out of their offices and into the trunk of their cars. Daniel Peterson, when asked about the unusual activity was reported as saying, "There's nothing to see here folks, move along".

We're discussing a serious accusation of illegal activity here. I think it's in extremely poor taste to joke about Dan being "in" on it, let alone engaging in similar crimes himself.

EDIT: I should have said "Dan and/or other professors at the NES department being 'in' on it . . . "

I agree, Jack. The way this entire thread has been handled is in poor taste and just plain wrong. Lund is not representative of some kind of general corruption among LDS academics leading tours, and that is speaking only as if he were guilty, which we do not know.

I feel bad for Lund. He is in quite a spot, guilty or not. How awful.

[_MrStakhanovite]

Hopefully, it's all a big misunderstanding. I hope Lund is innocent of the charges.

[_Quasimodo]

I agree, Jack. The way this entire thread has been handled is in poor taste and just plain wrong. Lund is not representative of some kind of general corruption among LDS academics leading tours, and that is speaking only as if he were guilty, which we do not know.

I feel bad for Lund. He is in quite a spot, guilty or not. How awful.

Since I'm responsible for the thread, I guess I'm responsible for how it's handled. I'm sorry if you find it in poor taste. Certainly that was not my intention.

I do find this sort of thing upsetting, though. An academic professional should (and would) know that the acquiring of these sort of antiquities is always going to be from illicit sources. Pilfered from tombs and ancient sites and effecting the ability of archeologists and historians to understand and date the sites that they were taken from. The smallest, most insignificant artifact can often lead to a true understanding of a site that is being examined.

Whether Lund is found guilty or not, by providing a market for looters (this, I think, is clear) he was robbing the world of historical facts.

I have no sympathy for him.

[_Kishkumen]

I have no sympathy for him.

Quasi,

I agree with you 100% on the issue of antiquities and looting. What I take exception to is the assumption that he is guilty, and other posters' decision to turn this into a black mark on all LDS academics who lead tours. That is totally unfair.

[_Doctor Scratch]

Well, Quasimodo, perhaps an anecdote is in order here. Did you happen to see Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade? 'Cause if you did, I'm sure you remember the fantastic opening flash-back sequence, where Young Indy (played by River Phoenix) is a boy scout exploring with his troop in southern Utah. He and one of his fellow scouts wind up down in a cave where they come across a group of treasure-diggers. These men (i.e, the treasure diggers) unearth a dazzling gold cross--an artifact which apparently once belonged to the explorer Francisco Vasquez de Coronado.

Well, this being an action picture, Young Indy steals it and a chase ensues, etc. But when the leader of the treasure-diggers at last confronts Indy, Indy rather indignantly says to him, "That's Coronado's cross! It belongs in a museum!"

Could it be that Lund was simply viewing himself as a kind of aging, Mopologetic Indiana Jones, helping to bring these artifacts back to where they "really belong"?

[_just me]

I <3 River Phoenix.