Mormon Apologetics & Misogyny: The Case of William Schryver

[_Pahoran]

I now confidently predict that Scratch will say something like "Aha! I knew he was a mod, and that proves it!"
Regards,
Pahoran

He may accuse you of lying for the Board.

Of course he might. But if he's just going to reject as a lie any response he doesn't like, then what's the point of asking the question?

Regards,
Pahoran

[_Pahoran]

liz3564 posted: "So, I will ask again....Are David, LOAP, and Abman....all stalwart defenders of the faith....two of the three published apologists...."useful idiots", in your estimation?"

It's the easiest thing in the world for "useful idiots" to get published. It doesn't matter if they're apologists or critics. It happens all the time. Will Bagley has done it twice now. Grant Palmer did it.

I do wish there weren't so many "useful idiots" trying to do Mormon apologetics, or getting in the way of those who do it well.

Hi-ho Silver,

I'm not sure I would classify Bagley and Palmer as "useful idiots." They may indeed be idiots, and they are doubtless useful to somebody (although in Bagley's case I'm inclined to see him as hostile rather than stupid.)

I understand the term "useful idiot" to be equivalent to "A person who allows herself to be manipulated by those hostile to what she holds dear." As an example of that: It's been my experience that those in the LDS apologetic community can be divided into two groups, with regard to Kevin Graham. The first group would say "Kevin Who?" The second know that he's one of the most hostile, driven and devious apostates since D. P. Hurlbut.

But Kevin tells us that some LDS apologists contacted him to confide to him that they were worried about Will's online behaviour.

Really?

If in fact they do know Kevin, but don't realise what he's on about, then I would definitely characterise them as "useful idiots."

Regards,
Pahoran

[_Simon Belmont]

I do wish there weren't so many "useful idiots" trying to do Mormon apologetics, or getting in the way of those who do it well.

Mon dieu, Silver Hammer! It is as if you and William Schryver want the "little guys" simply out of the way while the professionals do what they do best. What about the amateurs? What about the many unknowns who simply enjoy apologetics as a hobby, or who are simply interested in apologetics? Would you have them "step aside" because they are "useful idiots?" What about the Wades, the Kerry Shirts, the Michael Ashs of the world? Better yet, what about those who simply take an interest and are obviously hobbyists -- people like me? Are you really saying we should all just shut up and let you do your job? If that is so, all I have to say is this is a huge disappointment for a group of people that I once greatly respected.

[_Kishkumen]

But Kevin tells us that some LDS apologists contacted him to confide to him that they were worried about Will's online behaviour.

Really?

If in fact they do know Kevin, but don't realise what he's on about, then I would definitely characterise them as "useful idiots."

Well, there's some predictably narrow-minded bigotry for you. Not to mention the careless thought that rushes to assumptions about why Kevin was contacted.

And here this guy complains about poison pen campaigns. He certainly isn't above implicating others as unreliable friends of the faith.

Bad form.

[Guest]

liz3564 posted: "So, I will ask again....Are David, LOAP, and Abman....all stalwart defenders of the faith....two of the three published apologists...."useful idiots", in your estimation?"

It's the easiest thing in the world for "useful idiots" to get published. It doesn't matter if they're apologists or critics. It happens all the time. Will Bagley has done it twice now. Grant Palmer did it.

I do wish there weren't so many "useful idiots" trying to do Mormon apologetics, or getting in the way of those who do it well.

Hi there, Will.

Are you saying that you have a problem with Bokovoy, LoaP, et al.?

[_Kishkumen]

If that is so, all I have to say is this is a huge disappointment for a group of people that I once greatly respected.

Simon, is that you there under the wheels of that bus?

[Guest]

If that is so, all I have to say is this is a huge disappointment for a group of people that I once greatly respected.

Simon, is that you there under the wheels of that bus?

Hmm. Maybe this isn't "The Emperor" after all.

[_Simon Belmont]

Simon, is that you there under the wheels of that bus?

I guess it is, Kishkumen... I guess it is.

They ought to know each other from Skinny-L.

Never been a member of Skinny-L.

[_Kishkumen]

I guess it is, Kishkumen... I guess it is.

Well, fear not little buddy. It is only the second string online hacks that are throwing you there. The emperor has nothing to do with it. Will apparently doesn't value your efforts. Just consider the source.

[_Silver Hammer]

Pahoran: "But Kevin tells us that some LDS apologists contacted him to confide to him that they were worried about Will's online behaviour.

Really?

If in fact they do know Kevin, but don't realise what he's on about, then I would definitely characterise them as 'useful idiots.'"

Right on the mark, my friend.