Here is an example of where your tithing is spent...

[_zeezrom]

Has the Mormon prophet ever stopped to ask himself if his farming operations in Florida are sustainable over the long term?

The state's most serious environmental concerns are growth, groundwater contamination, and control of runoff water quality. These concerns are related to the changes in farming practices in the state.

[_Droopy]

In case you didn't get the gist of this, Harmony, you've made a fool of yourself yet again.

I'm not trying to suggest anyone is a fool. What I'm suggesting is that there is a lack of critical thinking taking place here that is contributing to this mischaracterization. I'd like to see it stopped. I also think that suggesting I'm calling her a fool only serves to stir up the emotions driving these arguments and impede any real communication. I don't think that's helpful.

Note to Mak: I didn't say you were calling her a fool. Indeed, I'm not calling her a fool. What I said was that she has made a fool of herself, of her own accord, yet again in this forum.

She has had a penchant for doing so here for a very long time, although she is not be any means the only one with a long record of fool-making in the endless pouncing upon any scrap of urban legend or innuendo that could be used to make a fool of the Church.

[_Chap]

Chap, that is very interesting. I have never seen or heard that quote/interview before. Thanks for posting it!

I always try to be a helpful Chap.

[_Droopy]

I'm not in Utah, Nevada, or Hawaii. And I work for a national non-profit and have relationships with all the other non-profits in the area,

That figures...

Figures quite well, in fact.

and the 2 LDS owned corporate farms here do NOTHING in the communities. NOTHING. And after all these years, everyone would be very surprised if they did. So don't try to tell me my business.

No, except provide real jobs and the expansion of the community tax base. What do you mean they do "nothing?"

And thank you for verifying that LDS owned corporate farms use volunteer labor, a significant expense for non-church owned farms, thus have an unfair advantage in the market place.

As Mak has already pointed out, while there is some volunteer work done in such enterprises, the Church is also an employer in this area, and pays all applicable taxes.

Now, how is the use of volunteer labor, to the degree this is done, an "unfair" advantage in the marketplace? To whom is it "unfair?" Safeway? Albertsons?

[_Droopy]

Has the Mormon prophet ever stopped to ask himself if his farming operations in Florida are sustainable over the long term?

The state's most serious environmental concerns are growth, groundwater contamination, and control of runoff water quality. These concerns are related to the changes in farming practices in the state.

And probably about 97% government/anti-corporate/special interest junk science.

Now, back to the point of the thread...

[_Droopy]

Why does the church need income above the tithes of the members? Especially if they don't use that income to further the mission of the church?

The church should never have control of a business that makes a profit. Every church owned business should donate their entire profits to the mission of the church (and I've never seen a statement yet saying the mission of the church is to get rich). If the church makes money, the church is guilty of priestcraft... preaching for gain.

The bitter and self defeating fruits of apostasy continue to take their toll. Its sad to see, but Harmony's mind is becoming as disheveled and incoherent as Graham's.

[_Chap]

Now, back to the point of the thread...

Sure thing:

I again repeat, that all these so-called "Corporations" of the Church ARE IN FACT "Corporations". That means their books are in fact open, per law in their respective areas, shareholders, etc. by the way.... I'm an expert in Corporations and LLC's, so I know what I'm talking about, it's what I do every day and have for years now. I set up companies nationwide.

The Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not publish accounts.

When asked about this in an interview with a German reporter before the Salt Lake Olympics, the then President of the Church replied as follows:

Reporter: "In my country, the…we say the people's churches, the Protestants, the Catholics, they publish all their budgets, to all the public.
Hinckley: [agrees]
Reporter: "Why is it impossible for your church?
Hinckley: "Well, we simply think that the…that information belongs to those who made the contribution, and not to the world. That's the only thing. Yes."

Here is a video of the whole interview online. The bit transcribed above is at 13:40 minutes in.

Of course it is impossible that President Hinckley was trying to mislead the viewers into thinking that members of the CoJCoLDS do have access to their church's accounts (they do not). But it is not easy to see what else he was intending to convey by these words.

Any suggestions? Unlike the 'god was once a man' business in the Larry King interview, the 'avoiding casting pearls before swine" defense does not seem to be worth attempting in this case.

[Guest]

Hinckley: "Well, we simply think that the…that information belongs to those who made the contribution, and not to the world. That's the only thing. Yes."

I wonder if, perhaps, the key to the answer to this question is to be found here?

[_Chap]

Hinckley: "Well, we simply think that the…that information belongs to those who made the contribution, and not to the world. That's the only thing. Yes."

I wonder if, perhaps, the key to the answer to this question is to be found here?

I get it. Anyone who pays tithing can see the church's books - since the information belongs to them, as contributors.

It is just that the Spirit moves them to keep it secret, and so far no-one has ever blabbed.

[_maklelan]

Why does the church need income above the tithes of the members? Especially if they don't use that income to further the mission of the church?

It helps provide a consistent income stream so they don't have to anticipate the ebbs and flows of tithing. Why should the church only be limited to tithing? Where is it written that churches may only make money from tithing? What makes you think the money doesn't further the mission of the church? Don't you think being more financially secure and having liquid assets helps them better execute that mission?

The church should never have control of a business that makes a profit.

Why not?

Every church owned business should donate their entire profits to the mission of the church (and I've never seen a statement yet saying the mission of the church is to get rich). If the church makes money, the church is guilty of priestcraft... preaching for gain.

Deseret Ranches doesn't preach, so that accusation falls flat. As I said, the church is more than a soup kitchen. It's also more than a missionary program. Please substantiate your inference regarding what every church-owned business should and should not be allowed to do, and please do it with something other than another naked assertion about what every church-owned business should and should not be allowed to do.