A 12 year old boy has more authority in the church than his

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_DarkHelmet
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Re: A 12 year old boy has more authority in the church than his

Post by _DarkHelmet »

MsJack wrote:I'm not sure it's correct to say that a 12 year-old boy has more authority in the LDS church than his mother. What type of authority? The authority to do what?

What things does a deacon have the authority to do that his mother does not? Pass the sacrament and collect fast offerings. Am I missing anything?

But he probably does not have the authority to do other things that his mother might have the authority to do, like preside over and conduct a Relief Society meeting.

All authority in the LDS church is delegated by someone else, from the authority that the apostles have to speak in General Conference to the authority that a woman has to perform washings and anointings on other women in the temple to the authority that the deacon has to pass the Sacrament to the authority that the non-member who's visiting the ward has to also pass the Sacrament on to the next person in the pew. It's all delegated authority, and Mormons would say that it comes from God to the prophet and goes from there.

There are areas where the church has designated that the mother is most definitively in authority over her son. The church has been pretty specific that the husband is ideally meant to "preside" in the home, not the wife (though Mormons seem to be in the midst of an identity crisis as to what the hell "preside" even means). But what happens in the case of single mother households or a household where the husband is otherwise unable or unworthy of presiding?

In those cases, the church has designated that it's the mother who presides, not her minor sons. The authority goes from husband to wife, not husband to son. Dallin Oaks grew up in a single-mother household and has talked about this on several occasions.

For me, the problem is not that a 12 year-old boy has authority and responsibilities that his mother does not have. One can make the case that they have authority and responsibilities in different things, that their roles are "separate but equal."

The problem is that the 12 year-old boy is only going to grow in sacerdotal authority and responsibilities, and the mother will not. For every type of "authority" in the church that a woman is given, for every task that she may perform, men have a comparable equivalent. This is not the case with women in the church, where we can create a long list of male-only roles for which there are no female equivalents. This is why you see so many people desperately reaching for pregnancy, lactation, childbirth and motherhood as some kind of equivalent.

The boy will eventually be able to perform baptisms, give blessings, preside over Elders Quorums, and serve in any number of callings for which there are no female equivalents. The mother will always just have the limited roles that she has. That is the problem.


That's a good point. To better illustrate the OP's point perhaps we should be comparing the authority that a 12 year old boy has compared to a 12-year old girl.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die."
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_Hoops
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Re: A 12 year old boy has more authority in the church than his

Post by _Hoops »

DarkHelmet wrote:
Hoops wrote:Nuts are measured in ounces, not bunches.


Mine are measured in pounds.



Isn't it difficult to shave your chin around those?
_Baker
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Re: A 12 year old boy has more authority in the church than his

Post by _Baker »

bcspace wrote:Nope. Let me know when you've actually posted a substantive criticism. Garbage in garbage out.


Do you seriously pretend that a very significant number of girls in the church are not raised as second class citizens in their priesthood-led homes?

I had an interesting experience a couple of weeks ago when my teenage daughter was talking to me about her ambitions towards a wealthy lifestyle when she's older (half in jest) in front of her TBM maternal grandmother. My MIL responded - "Well, then, you'd better marry a wealthy man!" My daughter both looked at her quizzically as my daughter responded - "What do you mean? I'm going to make my own money!" While it may also be generational, the home in which my wife was raised was definitely one of female second-class citizenship and it shows.
"I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. ... Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I." - Joseph Smith, 1844
_harmony
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Re: A 12 year old boy has more authority in the church than his

Post by _harmony »

stemelbow wrote:The thread cuase me a chuckle as soon as I thought of how much authority my wife has over our twelve year old aaronic priesthood holding son. Straight up laughable if you only knew.


I think they're talking about in the church, stem, not in your home.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_stemelbow
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Re: A 12 year old boy has more authority in the church than his

Post by _stemelbow »

harmony wrote:I think they're talking about in the church, stem, not in your home.


It still makes me laugh. if only they knew...
Love ya tons,
Stem


I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
_Themis
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Re: A 12 year old boy has more authority in the church than his

Post by _Themis »

stemelbow wrote:
It still makes me laugh. if only they knew...


I think most of us know the authority a mother has over her 12 year old boy. The issue I guess is that women have been second class citisens even today in that Men are in charge, and a mother's 12 year old can pass the sacrament and the mother can not, or even the 12 year old sister. We still have a long ways to go, but it certainly is not a problem for just the LDS, but also a number of other religions. The more conservative a religion the longer it takes to change. That's why the priesthood ban was not lifted until 1978. :)
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_jon
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Re: A 12 year old boy has more authority in the church than his

Post by _jon »

I wonder which revelation will come first:
1. Women can hold the Priesthood
2. Homosexual marriages are okay
3. The Church will now publish financial accounts
'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.
Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.
_Buffalo
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Re: A 12 year old boy has more authority in the church than his

Post by _Buffalo »

jon wrote:I wonder which revelation will come first:
1. Women can hold the Priesthood
2. Homosexual marriages are okay
3. The Church will now publish financial accounts


I'd guess they'll happen in that order. But number three is probably the least likely to ever happen. They've got a sweet deal going with that one.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_stemelbow
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Re: A 12 year old boy has more authority in the church than his

Post by _stemelbow »

Themis wrote:I think most of us know the authority a mother has over her 12 year old boy. The issue I guess is that women have been second class citisens even today in that Men are in charge, and a mother's 12 year old can pass the sacrament and the mother can not, or even the 12 year old sister. We still have a long ways to go, but it certainly is not a problem for just the LDS, but also a number of other religions. The more conservative a religion the longer it takes to change. That's why the priesthood ban was not lifted until 1978. :)


I don't many LDS women who see themselves anywhere near a second class citizen. Such a distinction would have to all be in perception. I don't know many LDS men in the Church who see women as second class citizens. and there are plenty of women who have authority over all the boys in class, for instance. I don't know any women, although I don't doubt that there are some, who would like to pass the sacrament. It ain't nothing. its walking around with a tray of bread and water and making sure everyone has the chance to partake.

I guess I'd have to come back tot he question of authority over what?
Love ya tons,
Stem


I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
_Buffalo
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Re: A 12 year old boy has more authority in the church than his

Post by _Buffalo »

stemelbow wrote:
Themis wrote:I think most of us know the authority a mother has over her 12 year old boy. The issue I guess is that women have been second class citisens even today in that Men are in charge, and a mother's 12 year old can pass the sacrament and the mother can not, or even the 12 year old sister. We still have a long ways to go, but it certainly is not a problem for just the LDS, but also a number of other religions. The more conservative a religion the longer it takes to change. That's why the priesthood ban was not lifted until 1978. :)


I don't many LDS women who see themselves anywhere near a second class citizen. Such a distinction would have to all be in perception. I don't know many LDS men in the Church who see women as second class citizens. and there are plenty of women who have authority over all the boys in class, for instance. I don't know any women, although I don't doubt that there are some, who would like to pass the sacrament. It ain't nothing. its walking around with a tray of bread and water and making sure everyone has the chance to partake.

I guess I'd have to come back tot he question of authority over what?


Is that what they teach the Aaronic priesthood? That passing the sacrament "ain't nothing"?
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
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