Of course I hate the LDS church. Is that a problem?

[_Doctor Scratch]

I don't agree with a lot of what malaise has been saying on this thread, but I do agree that your characterization of the LDS Church as "voluntary" is bizarre. Is that really how you feel, as a believing member? You would think that, per what the Church teaches, you'd view your membership in and commitment to the Church as mandatory. Is that not the case? Do you really feel that your choosing to affiliate yourself with the Church is as basic and stakes-free a choice as selecting which pair of socks to wear in the morning?

[_The Nehor]

I don't agree with a lot of what malaise has been saying on this thread, but I do agree that your characterization of the LDS Church as "voluntary" is bizarre. Is that really how you feel, as a believing member?

Yes.

You would think that, per what the Church teaches, you'd view your membership in and commitment to the Church as mandatory.

I'm not sure that word means what you think it means.

Of course it's not mandatory. Many choose not to belong. There are benefits to belonging. If you want to pay the price to belong do so. If not, not.

Do you really feel that your choosing to affiliate yourself with the Church is as basic and stakes-free a choice as selecting which pair of socks to wear in the morning?

Something being voluntary doesn't mean it's stakes-free. I can voluntarily join the military, quit my scuba classes, or decide to leave the LDS faith. All of these are voluntary but also have consequences.

[_Simon Belmont]

I don't agree with a lot of what malaise has been saying on this thread,

I'm glad.

but I do agree that your characterization of the LDS Church as "voluntary" is bizarre. Is that really how you feel, as a believing member? You would think that, per what the Church teaches, you'd view your membership in and commitment to the Church as mandatory.

Once I decided to make the commitment then I chose to commit whatever time and resources are required to fulfill that commitment.

Is that not the case? Do you really feel that your choosing to affiliate yourself with the Church is as basic and stakes-free a choice as selecting which pair of socks to wear in the morning?

At first, yes!

But, like socks, once I've made a choice I am committed to it for the rest of the "day."

[_malaise]

It is good that you're happy now. You made a choice in the past, and you discovered that it was not the right choice for you at that time, and you left.

I was raised in the church, but I suppose I had the option of running away to avoid the brainwashing.

So are you now blaming the church for a failed engagement? Where does the responsibility lie for our choices and actions, malaise?

Mormon culture was responsible for it Simian. It's unfortunate, but that's LDS culture for you.

Yes. If that is your path then I am glad you are on it. It does not give you the right to hate the church, or to attack it. If you don't want to participate in it, that is your choice, but hatred and malice is never healthy. So leave the church, and leave it alone.

I think hatred is fine. It sure makes Mormons angry, eh Simian? that's enough of a justification for it

You have yet to demonstrate that you were "coerced" into joining a completely voluntary organization.

What constitutes a voluntary organization is itself under dispute. You are ignoring everything I say.

I make choices, and I live with the consequences. That's called being an adult. You should try it.

Didn't you hear? The Mormon church doesn't treat women like adults. They can't even hold meetings of their cute little organization in church buildings unless a qualified male priesthood holder is there in the building.

[_Ceeboo]

Hey SB,

But, like socks, once I've made a choice I am committed to it for the rest of the "day."

Do Mormon feet stink?

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_moksha]

Hate is one of those emotions that take a lot of energy to maintain. Much easier to just let it go. Besides, it is just a more toxic subvariant of anger - the primal emotion. Unending anger can play havoc with your bodies general alarm system. Who wants that?

[_Doctor Scratch]

You would think that, per what the Church teaches, you'd view your membership in and commitment to the Church as mandatory.

I'm not sure that word means what you think it means.

Of course it's not mandatory. Many choose not to belong.

And what is going to happen to those people, per Church doctrine? Are there consequences? Or is it basically the same as choosing not to volunteer for the Red Cross?

Do you really feel that your choosing to affiliate yourself with the Church is as basic and stakes-free a choice as selecting which pair of socks to wear in the morning?

Something being voluntary doesn't mean it's stakes-free. I can voluntarily join the military, quit my scuba classes, or decide to leave the LDS faith. All of these are voluntary but also have consequences.

In what respects do you think that Church membership is similar to the things you listed?

[_Pahoran]

Didn't you hear? The Mormon church doesn't treat women like adults. They can't even hold meetings of their cute little organization in church buildings unless a qualified male priesthood holder is there in the building.

Call for references, please. This will come as a surprise to my wife, given her Relief Society responsibilities.

Actually when I see dismissive sarcasm like "cute little organization," I'm wondering who really isn't treating whom like adults.

In other words, just because you despise Latter-day Saint women doesn't mean that we do. You should try to avoid projecting your own foul attitudes onto us.

Just a suggestion.

Regards,
Pahoran

[Guest]

Hey again malaise,

I think hatred is fine.

That's too bad (in my opinion)

It sure makes Mormons angry, eh Simian?

I would imagine that being on the receiving end of hatred would make anyone a tad angry, no?

that's enough of a justification for it

Not in my book!

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Doctor Scratch]

but I do agree that your characterization of the LDS Church as "voluntary" is bizarre. Is that really how you feel, as a believing member? You would think that, per what the Church teaches, you'd view your membership in and commitment to the Church as mandatory.

Once I decided to make the commitment then I choseto commit whatever time and resources are required to fulfill that commitment.

You're kind of avoiding my question, Simon. I asked you whether or not you view your membership as being "mandatory." Do you? Or do you feel about the Church pretty much the same way you feel about your choice of breakfast each morning? Is it really as frivolous as that, in your view?

Is that not the case? Do you really feel that your choosing to affiliate yourself with the Church is as basic and stakes-free a choice as selecting which pair of socks to wear in the morning?

At first, yes!

But, like socks, once I've made a choice I am committed to it for the rest of the "day."

If you say so, Simon. My experience tells me that most TBMs feel a lot more strongly about their membership and their decision to join the Church than what you're describing. I think that most LDS converts would be insulted if someone described their decision to join as being like "choosing socks."

But I think you get my basic point here. You seem to want to describe participation in the LDS Church as this frivolous, carefree, consequence-less thing, like volunteering for the bake sale, or something, and that's just not correct on any level.