Buffalo wrote:Bigotry: it's what's for Mormon breakfast
It's your own bigotry and ignorance that is the true bigotry. There is no bigotry in my words. My gay best friend who's in a live in gay relationship, whom I do martial arts with, eat with him and his partner at their home and the partners Italian restaurant, have barbeque's with, etc. etc. knows very well that I'm not a bigot, even though he's not a Mormon (never been), and that we don't agree with each other on some things.
Woe unto those who call good evil and evil good. :(
All bigots love to talk about their black/gay/hispanic/whatever friends. It's their first defense after saying something bigoted.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
Obiwan wrote:Darin.... I know you don't want to hear it, but homosexuality is a "deviation", a perversion of the natural order, thus a sin.
There are many other kinds of sins people suffer from, "crosses" others bear, that are not homosexual based but based on other "temptations", temptations just as strong as homosexual desires, but they are "deviation" as well. I know what I'm talking about because I have a strong deviation, cross that I bear, which is contra to what I know to be right, moral, etc.
Just because you and yours have made homosexuality "normal", doesn't mean it's anymore normal or more importantly RIGHT than any other sin and temptation of the flesh. You don't want to hear it, but pedophiles FEEL exactly like you, as well as every other deviation you can think of. That "feeling" doesn't make right.
Yes, your cross is a difficult one, it is in your every fiber and being, I know what that's like, but for another sin, but that doesn't make it anymore right for you to both do but especially promote as right and normal. It is especially even more wrong for the gay agenda to force their deviation on both society and the Church. Your personal "choice" is one thing, but your direct and flagrant confrontations against Gods Kingdom will undue you and/or those who have such agendas even more.
I have no right to force my cross onto the world and the Church as "normal" and acceptable than you do..... You have been deceived.
Hi, Obiwan,
I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with me, and I'm content to receive them in the positive spirit I imagine that motivated them. There's no need for you to project the idea that "[you] know [I] don't want to hear" your testimony against my acceptance and experession of my homosexuality onto me. The condemnation you share is nothing new to me, and are concepts that I myself spend countless hours reading and in therapy over the span of the first three decades of my life trying to fully understand--and eventually abandon, after much study, prayer, and discovery.
Your view and testimony obviously give you some semblance of fortitude (and possibly comfort) as you wrestle with whatever your own particular demons are that you've alluded to, and I support you in productively channeling that challenge according to what you feel is best for you.
Whether or not either of us have been deceived is certainly highly possible, as I believe that all humans have a HIGH capacity for self-deception. In my particular case, I'm comfortable that I put in the necessary blood, sweat, and tears to arrive at what I am convinced is a position that is the most non-self-deceptive position I could hope for, with regards to understanding my own homosexual thoughts, feelings, nature, and inherent worth and worthiness. I do not seek to force anyone to my position, and fully support you in your views, even as they so radically differ from my own. I operate from that position while striving for a continual balance of self-assurance and compassion and respect for others.
Best to you, Darin
QFT, and also quoted as an example of a classy, articulate, substantive posting. Well done, Darin.
obiwan, I can't imagine what it must be like to struggle with pedophilic attractions, as it appears you do. I imagine it's a tremendous challenge to have those types of unwelcome and destructive attractions. I can understand why you choose to take the stance that you do, and encourage you to keep fighting those natural inclinations you may have that could be so harmful to underage children.
Having said the above, I think you've misunderstood my position: I don't seek or petition the LDS church to change it's stance on the morality of homosexual relationships, and fully support the Brethren's autonomous choice to continue to condemn them, so long as they wish.
hatersinmyward, I'm not sure what propositions you've set forth in this thread that you feel may be worth responding to by us "gays." for what it's worth, I actually had assumed your persona and posts were an intentional and unflattering parody of a position that you didn't [i[really[/i] espouse. If there's something you seriously would like to discuss, please repeat it, and I'll let you know if I have any response.
Darin
"Have compassion for everyone you meet even if they don't want it. What seems conceit, bad manners, or cynicism is always a sign of things no ears have heard, no eyes have seen. You do not know what wars are going on down there where the spirit meets the bone."--Miller Williams
obiwan, I can't imagine what it must be like to struggle with pedophilic attractions, as it appears you do. I imagine it's a tremendous challenge to have those types of unwelcome and destructive attractions. I can understand why you choose to take the stance that you do, and encourage you to keep fighting those natural inclinations you may have that could be so harmful to underage children.
Having said the above, I think you've misunderstood my position: I don't seek or petition the LDS church to change it's stance on the morality of homosexual relationships, and fully support the Brethren's autonomous choice to continue to condemn them, so long as they wish.
hatersinmyward, I'm not sure what propositions you've set forth in this thread that you feel may be worth responding to by us "gays." for what it's worth, I actually had assumed your persona and posts were an intentional and unflattering parody of a position that you didn't [i[really[/i] espouse. If there's something you seriously would like to discuss, please repeat it, and I'll let you know if I have any response.
Darin
yes darin.
why casting the gays out is not considered a valid point when they cry about not being considered equal. according to the gay in nature website the "gay animals" are always cast out of the group. point being straight people are just acting by their primal instincts when they shun the queers.
none of you "fags" had anything to say about because i'm obviously right.
why casting the gays out is not considered a valid point when they cry about not being considered equal. according to the gay in nature website the "gay animals" are always cast out of the group. point being straight people are just acting by their primal instincts when they shun the queers.
none of you "fags" had anything to say about because i'm obviously right.
What "gay in nature" website is that? Link please.
gay are hated by straight animals, its a natural thing.
but considering gay animals have smaller brains according, whatever.... human queer folk have normal sized brains.
i'm a nice guy so if fags had smaller brains then i'd accept it as a natural thing... but its not... its a choice.
so casting out the gays is natures way... so if fags want their problems to go away they need to start acting straight.
I still couldn't find it. Perhaps you can give me a quotation.
read the article. it says gay rats, among other "gay" animals have smaller brains. the article gives like 5 examples of these "gay animals" being cast out of the group.