Of course I hate the LDS church. Is that a problem?

[_why me]

I'll respond to simian later, but I was just struck by a closing thought. Even if joining the church is voluntary, if the Mormons are right we are punished for not living in accordance with their rules. Sky daddy will punish homosexuals (who harm no one), people who don't kiss his ass, and lots of other innocent people. So in a sense the church is merely part of a more coercive system (if the Mormons are right).

Have you read the Bible? It is pretty tough in some places. I believe that it is in acts where a couple were struck dead for lying about their tithing of personal property.

[_why me]

I don't agree with a lot of what malaise has been saying on this thread, but I do agree that your characterization of the LDS Church as "voluntary" is bizarre. Is that really how you feel, as a believing member? You would think that, per what the Church teaches, you'd view your membership in and commitment to the Church as mandatory. Is that not the case? Do you really feel that your choosing to affiliate yourself with the Church is as basic and stakes-free a choice as selecting which pair of socks to wear in the morning?

Of course the church is a voluntary organization and one can join and leave freely. No problem. However, the LDS church does have a powerful truth message and this message can have an affect on people who choose to leave, especially if they experienced a witness of its truth claims. And it is here that we have the problem. Now if one never received this truth witness, the matter of leaving is easier than eating apple pie.

The witness to its truth makes the difference.

[_cafe crema]

Hey, buddy! I hear a cry for help - allow me:

"Do you think hatred of pedophilia can be a virtue?"

Glad to help (it's midnight here, and that was tough!),
H.

But then again, if this hatred allows for a mob to break into a home of a pedophile and they lynch him...well....that may not be a virtue.

Has that ever happened? Has a group of people ever gotten together to kill a pedophile? I've heard of groups beating homosexuals to death but I can't remember any people behaving in a similar fashion towards a pedophile.

[_Redefined]

Well whatever you wanna call it, my joining the church wasn't "voluntary". All an 8 year old wants to do is be accepted and love and have the approval of her parents. She is too young to understand the whole concept of the commitment she is supposed to be making.

Being told everyday from the minute you were born that the church is true. Are we 8 year olds supposed to choose to make our parents, family, Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father sad by saying "no, thanks". . . was that option even ever really on the table!!!

[_jon]

''Hatred (or hate) is a deep and emotional extreme dislike, directed against a certain object or class of objects''

Racism (discriminating or victimising people purely because of their race) is hated by some but espoused by others. Personally I hate racism.

Does racism exist 'organizationally' in the Church? Well, there can be absolutely no argument that prior to 1978 the Church discriminated against 'the negro' both in it's leaders words and it's Priesthood ban. That has gone but traces still remain - the Church still teaches it's young men that they are better off not marrying someone from a different racial background.

Sexism (discriminating or victimising people purely because of their sex) is hated by some but espoused by others. Personally I hate sexism.

Does sexism exist 'organizationally' in the Church? There can be no doubt that the Church discriminates between the sexes. In the past, women were not allowed to pray in Sacrament meetings, only men could. Today, women are still not allowed to hold the Priesthood which means they cannot hold any meaningful leadership position within the Church. They cannot administer within the Church other than in a servile manner. The Church has actively campaigned when nationally women were close to being given equal rights in law.

Homophobia (the hatred towards people attracted to the same sex) is espoused by some but hated by others. Personally I hate homophobia.

Does discrimination based on sexulaity exist 'organizationally' in the Church? Well, I think the Church's invlolvement in Proposition 8 ended any potential debate on this one.

I guess I hate specific aspects of the Church, it's teachings and it's practices and the way some members espouse the 'isms...

[_Ceeboo]

Good morning café crema,

Has that ever happened? Has a group of people ever gotten together to kill a pedophile?

Indeed!

Perhaps one of the most dangerous and life threatening circumstance that exists- is to be a known pedophile in prison.

I've heard of groups beating homosexuals to death but I can't remember any people behaving in a similar fashion towards a pedophile.

I would suggest that the level of danger that a homosexual or a pedophile faces, depends, in great measure, by the enviornment/sorroundings they find themselves in.

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Yoda]

Hey, buddy! I hear a cry for help - allow me:

"Do you think hatred of pedophilia can be a virtue?"

Glad to help (it's midnight here, and that was tough!),
H.

But then again, if this hatred allows for a mob to break into a home of a pedophile and they lynch him...well....that may not be a virtue.

Sounds like a virtue to me!

Any adult who sexually molests a child deserves any type of abuse that is heaped his/her way. And, as a Mom....God help you if you touch any of my kids. I'll make sure you're singing soprano for life!

[_Buffalo]

Sounds like a virtue to me!

Any adult who sexually molests a child deserves any type of abuse that is heaped his/her way. And, as a Mom....God help you if you touch any of my kids. I'll make sure you're singing soprano for life!

Amen.

[_Simon Belmont]

Well whatever you wanna call it, my joining the church wasn't "voluntary". All an 8 year old wants to do is be accepted and love and have the approval of her parents. She is too young to understand the whole concept of the commitment she is supposed to be making.

She is also too young to understand the evil, racist, sexist, fascist, communist, corrupt, (did I mention evil?) nature of Mormonism. So what? She gets dunked in some water. She can, at any time, leave the voluntary organization or return to it.

Being told everyday from the minute you were born that the church is true. Are we 8 year olds supposed to choose to make our parents, family, Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father sad by saying "no, thanks". . . was that option even ever really on the table!!!

Yeah, stupid parent's trying to teach their children what they feel is best. It's all their fault, isn't it! My parents told me "an apple a day keeps the doctor away" -- LIES! I ate an apple every single day, yet still caught cold that year.

[_Tchild]

malaise

You also have a choice when someone points a gun to you head Simian

Really? What's the choice?

Don't obey prophetic counsel, don't serve a mission, do your own thing, then criticize those who invested far more time, talents and energy into the church who now feel disillusioned.

It is easy to misunderstand what the church demands when you yourself (Simon) have seemingly been marginally invested. church teachings and mandates seem voluntary to Simon, because he hasn't invested himself into the church and what it teaches...or fails to understand the teachings. It is probably both.