Of course I hate the LDS church. Is that a problem?

[_cafe crema]

Good morning café crema,

Has that ever happened? Has a group of people ever gotten together to kill a pedophile?

Indeed!

Perhaps one of the most dangerous and life threatening circumstance that exists- is to be a known pedophile in prison.

I've heard of groups beating homosexuals to death but I can't remember any people behaving in a similar fashion towards a pedophile.

I would suggest that the level of danger that a homosexual or a pedophile faces, depends, in great measure, by the enviornment/sorroundings they find themselves in.

Peace,
Ceeboo

You know I have never heard of this prison/pedophile thing anywhere but TV cop shows, it may be that I don't know anyone who works with prisoners in any capacity and I don't do any related reading so I just don't encounter "real life stories" about them. Either way though pedophiles being killed by fellow inmates is not what Why me was talking about with this statement:

But then again, if this hatred allows for a mob to break into a home of a pedophile and they lynch him...well....that may not be a virtue.

. So outside of prison, has there been a group of people so filled with hate towards pedophiles that they have killed?

[_Morley]

So outside of prison, has there been a group of people so filled with hate towards pedophiles that they have killed?

from: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002479731_mullen08m.html

Below is a quote from the article.

Bellingham suspect could face the death penalty

By Mike Carter
Seattle Times staff reporter

The man who claims he killed two convicted sex offenders in Bellingham last month was charged today with two counts of aggravated first-degree murder.

The charges filed against Michael A. Mullen carry a possible penalty of either death or life in prison without parole. Mac Setter, Whatcom County chief criminal deputy prosector, said the prosecutor's office would decide by Mullen's Sept. 16 arraignment date whether to seek the death penalty.

Mullen, 35, is being held on $1 million bail in the Whatcom County Jail after turning himself in Monday.

Mullen has written that he was molested as a child, according to police.

The claim is contained in letters believed to be written by Mullen, said Bellingham police Lt. Craige Ambrose. The lieutenant did not provide additional details.

He did say, however, that Mullen also is believed to have written a number of Internet postings, including a confession to the slayings under the pseudonym "Agent Life," the same moniker used in letters sent to police and various media outlets since the Aug. 27 shooting deaths of Victor Vazquez, 68, and Hank Eisses, 49.

Mullen has told police he was motivated by the case of Joseph Edward Duncan III, a sex offender charged with killing a family in Idaho and kidnapping two children as sex slaves, Ambrose said. His most recent letters, Ambrose said, now also refer to his own alleged abuse.

The Internet confession apparently was erased shortly after it was posted. However, a copy was posted on a Web log called The Dark Side (www.planethuff.com/darkside).

"I am Agent Life! And I alone and [sic] respnsible [sic] for the deaths of the two level three pedophiles in Bellingham Washington, and they are not the last to be executed unless things change for the better," it said. (Level 3 sex offenders are those determined to be at highest risk of reoffending.)

That confession, Ambrose confirmed, was posted on an AmericaOnline (AOL) journal apparently belonging to Mullen. Detectives are also reviewing other postings, including one signed by Mullen in which he claims his hobbies are "hunting pedophiles" and in which he demands "harsh action" against child molesters. Those writings were signed "Michael A. Mullen" and were posted in an AOL journal Aug. 23, four days before the killings.

In the personal section of the journal — apparently posted just before the slayings — the author says he's "never been good talking about myself," but adds: "Well lets [sic] wait and hear what the media/public has to say."

[_Doctor Scratch]

I don't agree with a lot of what malaise has been saying on this thread, but I do agree that your characterization of the LDS Church as "voluntary" is bizarre. Is that really how you feel, as a believing member? You would think that, per what the Church teaches, you'd view your membership in and commitment to the Church as mandatory. Is that not the case? Do you really feel that your choosing to affiliate yourself with the Church is as basic and stakes-free a choice as selecting which pair of socks to wear in the morning?

Of course the church is a voluntary organization and one can join and leave freely.

Is this really correct? First of all, can you "join" w/ no strings attached? I.e., no baptism, no tithing, no interest in the temple, etc.? The fact is that the Church asks things from you. To say that one can join it "freely" isn't really correct. The same holds true with leaving. You can't simply "leave." The Church will go on keeping a record of you, and in most cases efforts are made to "reactivate" you or bring you back into the fold.

But that really wasn't what I was getting at. Simon characterized the Church as a "voluntary" organization, and I just don't think that fits. For example, do you "volunteer" for word as bishop, or G.D. teacher, or home teacher? Or are you "called" to do this? Is tithing something that you "volunteer" to "donate"? Or is tithing a "commandment"?

By calling the Church "voluntary," Simon is apparently trying to make it seem as if involvement with Mormonism is some care-free, happy-go-lucky affair where one does everything purely on the basis of smiling volunteerism. In other words, he glosses over the whole system of commandments, punishments, rewards, covenants, and disciplinary measures that help to structure the Church.

[_malaise]

There was no "brainwashing" unless, of course, you think the universities I voluntarily attended also brainwashed me. Hell, you're being brainwashed right now by your definition.

I didn't choose to have LDS doctrine drummed into my head by my parents in an attempt to brainwash me. I don't think you can compare the brainwashing that Church does to the kind of instruction that goes in a university.

It must all be one giant conspiracy, right?




And this is the root of the problem. Your engagement failed. That is sad, and I am sorry about it. It happens, though, like many unfortunate events in life. It isn't the church's fault. It probably isn't anyone's fault.

I would never have been engaged if it were not for the church. Although this is not the reason I hate the church, it is indicative of the culture that the church creates, which is what I do hate.

It is not under dispute. A voluntary organization is one in which its members can choose or choose not to participate in -- like the LDS Church.

Just like you can choose to get shot rather than obey someone with a gun. Heavenly Father is going to punish me for not being part of the church, right?

I know you're angry at your former fiancée. Take it out on him, though, leave the church out of your personal malice. My wife holds more responsibility in our ward than I do -- much more.

I should hope so Simian. An 11 year old girl should have more authority than you. In any case, your wife has no real power in the church. this has been discussed on here and elsewhere ad ad nauseum

[_malaise]

malaise

I am quite happy now. I was unhappy when I was still a member in the church. I was engaged to a man I hated because I was expected to get married, and I hated myself for going along with LDS nonsense. After I let the church there was a bumpy transition period, but it ended with me in a much better place. Can you understand that Simian?

You are anything but happy! If you were happy, you wouldn't still be emotionally involved with the church that you *hate*.

A good therapist could help you let go of that.

What's wrong with wanting to bash something you hate? mocking Mormonism makes me happy

[_Simon Belmont]

I didn't choose to have LDS doctrine drummed into my head by my parents in an attempt to brainwash me. I don't think you can compare the brainwashing that Church does to the kind of instruction that goes in a university.

Yes yes, it's your parent's fault. It's the church's fault. It's the neighbor's fault. It's anyone's fault but your own.

I've heard it all before, thousands of times. People just don't want to take responsibility for themselves and their choices, so they find others to blame.

I would never have been engaged if it were not for the church.

The Church forced you to get engaged? What are you talking about?

Just like you can choose to get shot rather than obey someone with a gun.

Look, enough of this false analogy. No one is threatening your life, or holding a gun to your head to join or not to join a church. To think so is ludicrous.

Heavenly Father is going to punish me for not being part of the church, right?

No.

And, once again you demonstrate that you know nothing about the church.

In any case, your wife has no real power in the church.

Yes she does. She most certainly does.

this has been discussed on here and elsewhere ad ad nauseum

Oh, right. Because it's discussed on anti-Mormon message boards it must be true.

[_Some Schmo]

Just so you know, malaise, there is no point talking to Simon about this stuff. He doesn't really understand the concept of personal responsibility like he thinks he does.

If you were affected by church culture as a child forced by your parents to attend church weekly, you have nobody but yourself to blame.

However, if you get angry at critics for not respecting what is important to you, then your anger is all the critics' fault.

In other words, active mo's are the only ones that never have to take responsibility... apparently. Either that, or Simon is a massively intellectually dishonest dumb ass. I'll leave it to you to determine which of those two options seems more likely.

[_Simon Belmont]

Just so you know, malaise, there is no point talking to Simon about this stuff. He doesn't really understand the concept of personal responsibility like he thinks he does.

If you were affected by church culture as a child forced by your parents to attend church weekly, you have nobody but yourself to blame.

However, if you get angry at critics for not respecting what is important to you, then your anger is all the critics' fault.

In other words, active mo's are the only ones that never have to take responsibility... apparently. Either that, or Simon is a massively intellectually dishonest dumb ass. I'll leave it to you to determine which of those two options seems more likely.

Wrong.

[_malaise]

Yes yes, it's your parent's fault. It's the church's fault. It's the neighbor's fault. It's anyone's fault but your own.

Yes, exactly. I'm glad you understamd.

I've heard it all before, thousands of times. People just don't want to take responsibility for themselves and their choices, so they find others to blame.



The Church forced you to get engaged? What are you talking about?

If you are raised in Mormon culture then you tend to go along the traditional Mormon path. That usually includes marriage by 25 to a fellow Mormon (you don't want to end up outside the celestial kingdom, do you?).

Look, enough of this false analogy. No one is threatening your life, or holding a gun to your head to join or not to join a church. To think so is ludicrous.

You have consistently failed to address my real point. Are you retarded?

Heavenly Father is going to punish me for not being part of the church, right?

No.
[/quote]Wow. Reallllly.

And, once again you demonstrate that you know nothing about the church.



Yes she does. She most certainly does.

Does she bake cookies for a lot of church events or something?

Oh, right. Because it's discussed on anti-Mormon message boards it must be true.

no, but you should know my position on this

[_cafe crema]

So outside of prison, has there been a group of people so filled with hate towards pedophiles that they have killed?

from: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002479731_mullen08m.html

Below is a quote from the article.

Bellingham suspect could face the death penalty

By Mike Carter
Seattle Times staff reporter

The man who claims he killed two convicted sex offenders in Bellingham last month was charged today with two counts of aggravated first-degree murder.

The charges filed against Michael A. Mullen carry a possible penalty of either death or life in prison without parole. Mac Setter, Whatcom County chief criminal deputy prosector, said the prosecutor's office would decide by Mullen's Sept. 16 arraignment date whether to seek the death penalty.

Mullen, 35, is being held on $1 million bail in the Whatcom County Jail after turning himself in Monday.

Mullen has written that he was molested as a child, according to police.

The claim is contained in letters believed to be written by Mullen, said Bellingham police Lt. Craige Ambrose. The lieutenant did not provide additional details.

He did say, however, that Mullen also is believed to have written a number of Internet postings, including a confession to the slayings under the pseudonym "Agent Life," the same moniker used in letters sent to police and various media outlets since the Aug. 27 shooting deaths of Victor Vazquez, 68, and Hank Eisses, 49.

Mullen has told police he was motivated by the case of Joseph Edward Duncan III, a sex offender charged with killing a family in Idaho and kidnapping two children as sex slaves, Ambrose said. His most recent letters, Ambrose said, now also refer to his own alleged abuse.

The Internet confession apparently was erased shortly after it was posted. However, a copy was posted on a Web log called The Dark Side (http://www.planethuff.com/darkside).

"I am Agent Life! And I alone and [sic] respnsible [sic] for the deaths of the two level three pedophiles in Bellingham Washington, and they are not the last to be executed unless things change for the better," it said. (Level 3 sex offenders are those determined to be at highest risk of reoffending.)

That confession, Ambrose confirmed, was posted on an AmericaOnline (AOL) journal apparently belonging to Mullen. Detectives are also reviewing other postings, including one signed by Mullen in which he claims his hobbies are "hunting pedophiles" and in which he demands "harsh action" against child molesters. Those writings were signed "Michael A. Mullen" and were posted in an AOL journal Aug. 23, four days before the killings.

In the personal section of the journal — apparently posted just before the slayings — the author says he's "never been good talking about myself," but adds: "Well lets [sic] wait and hear what the media/public has to say."

Thanks Morley, it's not quite the angry mob incited by hatred that Why me talks about though, what he describes is more like the Matthew Shepard case than this one.