schreech wrote:... I have, personally, paid for the construction of 3 houses and 1 well in ghana since I decided to stop paying tithing to the LDS church and give my money to people that actually need it....
Screech, that is totally awesome!
I couldn't agree more. I can respect someone who walks the walk even if we disagree about the church.
If you are caught on a golf course during a storm and are afraid of lightning, hold up a 1-iron. Not even God can hit a 1-iron. - Lee Trevino
Have u stopped to consider what the return might be for God if he spent the money to educate 1 billion people for the next 20 years?
Then what, zeezrom? There would be no church left to help people after that.
I am talking about perpetuity here, not a one-time "blow all your money" kind of thing.
Why are you talking about perpetuity? It's still the CoJC of Latter-day Saints, right? It's a millenial religion. There's no need to stock up a bank account now to keep the church going for perpetuity for two reasons: 1) Jesus is coming back; 2) God will provide. Where's your faith?
Okay, I get that the church needs to practice sound financial management, but you are justifying the new mall by saying the church needs to invest, totally ignoring that the church already has properties and businesses, lots of them. If you're satisfied that it is giving all it can afford to give, fine.
The person who is certain and who claims divine warrant for his certainty belongs now to the infancy of our species. Christopher Hitchens
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. Frater
And let's see, if the OP is correct then one tomahawk cruise missile fired at Libya could have created 30 wells for African people. Oh well, all for a good cause, right...stealing Libya's oil will make a fortune for the oil companies and maybe some of that will equal cash contributions for the Obama Museum of Peace.
Simon Belmont wrote:The measure of charity is how many houses are built?
Um...sure...and i paid for the digging of at least one well...where has your "tithing" gone?....oh, that's right, you have no idea...I actually went to ghana 2 years ago and met with several people that were desperate for assistance...i have personally bought the materials for 3 houses and have pictures of the well that i paid for in a small town outside the main city...what have you done? Not only that, i have paid for the education of at least 3 Ghanians who had no other opportunities beyond what my family has provided...that is just in africa...
"your reasoning that children should be experimented upon to justify a political agenda..is tantamount to the Nazi justification for experimenting on human beings."-SUBgenius on gay parents "I've stated over and over again on this forum and fully accept that I'm a bigot..." - ldsfaqs
The funds from humanitarian and fast stuff are being saved for some time when they will really be needed. A wave and people being hungry and cold is no big thing - they are not Mormons so it is OK, right?
Much if is being held in reserve to help the Lamanites - if any are ever found. That is the perfect plan as they are building the coffers to help these Book of Mormon promised knowing the money will always be available since the book is fiction.
"This is how INGORNAT these fools are!" - darricktevenson
Bow your head and mutter, what in hell am I doing here?
infaymos wrote: "Peterson is the defacto king ping of the Mormon Apologetic world."
Ref the OP, the funny thing is (funny sad, not funny ha ha) if you were to put it to vote, I'm convinced the General Body of the Mormon church would enthusiastically endorse using its billions to build wells & clinics rather than building an upscale mall in downtown SLC.
When I was serving my mission in Peru I used to believe that if only these people would embrace the principles of the Gospel then all their troubles would go away, prosperity would occur, and how in the world can they not see it?? Meanwhile I'd pass by the garbage filled Cuzco river on a daily basis watching people drink out of it (and livestock urinating in it upstream). What if we had been there building wells, sanitation projects, bridges, or volunteering with medical staff? How much more goodwill & real change would that have produced than telling them their religion is false?
V/R Dr. Cameron
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
You might be right. But there is a chance people that want religion, want just that: a religion. What if LDS stopped funding new buildings like temples (do endowments in a room of the stake center), malls, BYU buildings, etc. and used all their money to invest in people. The church might be reduced to a big charity. This is not sexy. It is not alluring to people. Would people lose interest?
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)
I think the key would be to find a balance between the two. A sort of Joel Osteenian embrace of worldliness, corporate savvy, self-help rhetoric, AND an investment in Christlike charity. The Mormon church is too heavily invested in rites and rituals (temples, boring Sacrament meetings, etc...), and less invested in people. I think the former is a bad long-term business model. It tries to compensate for poor people-business by getting into business. The Mormon church does a good job of making money, but fails miserably at elevating people in any sense of the word.
Again, if the Mormon church could be a little more positive, dynamic, and show its members that it's actually doing something that Christ Himself would do I think that would go a long way toward retention. Right now it's fighting a war of attrition that I'm not sure it's going to successfully abate through simple child birth ratios. It's going to have to change its approach to people for long-term viability.
V/R Dr. Cam
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Simon Belmont wrote:Let us say, for the moment, that the church did not invest in any real estate. At all.
Assuming it survived, it would today be a small frontier-style church with no money and no resources.
How much could it possibly give to the needy of the world?
Simple logic, really.
I don't ever recall Christ or his followers suggesting that building up treasures before feeding the poor and clothing the naked as the correct way.
But I would guess that anyone who truly believes and follows the LDS religion has to believe in their mind that their religion is doing the right thing based upon revelation from God. It's ashamed then they can not recognize how unChristlike these selfish endeavors are.