HELLO, I AM NEW HERE

[_Yoda]

In other words, an LDS member like you, or like me, for that matter, who is aware of the negative history, and chooses to continue membership in the Church, is not wasting his/her life. That individual is making an informed choice.

However, a person who does not know "the full story" is at a disadvantage.

I'll let Rich correct me if I am wrong regarding his feelings on this.

Fair enough, but you know my position on those who don't take the time or effort to learn all they can about the church.

Whose fault is it?

Can a person research what they don't know is there?

[_Simon Belmont]

Can a person research what they don't know is there?

Whose job is it to find out what's there?

[_Wisdom Seeker]

• A hostile critic of my faith begins an interaction with me, either via e-mail, or on a message board such as this.
• This hostile critic is really a wolf in sheep's clothing, explaining that she or he has only the most noble motive: to discuss Mormonism in an unbiased way.
• As the discussion proceeds, the critic begins by telling me that she or he only learns about Mormonism through LDS sources, and is well read on these sources, and that she or he has some "questions."
• Then we get into obscure quotations that past leaders have said, quotations taken from The Journal of Discourses or The King Follett Discourse, and general misrepresentations of my faith. In other words, telling me what I believe!

How shall a person either in the church or out of the church know what things found in what is often considered important historical and faith promoting literature such as the Journal of Discourses or King Follett Discourse are valid in regards to belief and doctrine?

[_just me]

Can a person research what they don't know is there?

Whose job is it to find out what's there?

Well, not an 8 year old childs. An 8 year old child cannot possibly be held responsible for the covenants made at baptism because they were made without a full understanding of them AND the LDS church.

[_Simon Belmont]

Well, not an 8 year old childs. An 8 year old child cannot possibly be held responsible for the covenants made at baptism because they were made without a full understanding of them AND the LDS church.

That isn't for me to decide. God made that rule. When someone is old enough to begin researching things, it is their responsibility to research them.

[_just me]

Well, not an 8 year old childs. An 8 year old child cannot possibly be held responsible for the covenants made at baptism because they were made without a full understanding of them AND the LDS church.

That isn't for me to decide. God made that rule. When someone is old enough to begin researching things, it is their responsibility to research them.

And do you think an 8 year old child is capable of conducting research by themselves on a religion and coming to a logical conclusion that takes into account long term consequences? Remember, most of them believe in Santa and the Tooth Fairy.

[_zeezrom]

Can a person research what they don't know is there?

Whose job is it to find out what's there?

Do you hear the church leadership encouraging its members to search all the information out there on the church and its history? My dad recently told me: "I better not look at any of the books you looked at or I might end up in the same place you are." The books he was referring to were RSL, ISL, Mormon Enigma, etc. Not wildly critical books.

[_Morley]

Well, not an 8 year old childs. An 8 year old child cannot possibly be held responsible for the covenants made at baptism because they were made without a full understanding of them AND the LDS church.

That isn't for me to decide. God made that rule. When someone is old enough to begin researching things, it is their responsibility to research them.

Simon, you continue to amaze and delight. But probably not for the reasons you would prefer.

ETA: And by "delight," I mean a mixture of fascination and profound horror.

[_LDS truthseeker]

Hi Rich, good to see you on the board and to hear from you again.

Regarding the name of the church, probably best to refer to it as the LDS church on most forums.

[_Nightlion]

And do you think an 8 year old child is capable of conducting research by themselves on a religion and coming to a logical conclusion that takes into account long term consequences? Remember, most of them believe in Santa and the Tooth Fairy.

The reason they believe in SC and the TF is because we raised them to love US instead of love God. Eight years old is when they are held accountable and when sin begins to be conceived in their hearts. I know that children younger than eight are capable of doing evil things. But they are not held to account for them until 8. By the time a child is eight, growing up in Zion, they would be capable of making a valid covenant.

Zion would have not told them recreational B*** S*** but raised them up in the love of God and these children would crave the moment when they could become the children of God, and partake of his powers, gifts and knowledge poured down upon them abundantly, seeing these great things daily in the lives of their parents, neighbors and older friends. Miracles of true conversion and dramatic regenerations would be clicking off all around them daily as all their friends get 'fired up' and become true saints of the Most High God. A paradise of beauty and power.

You must have a real Zion to raise up children unto the Lord. We plop them in front of the TV. We let them get sucked into video gaming where viciousness is entertainment. They scarcely have a moments peace without older sibling's blaring hateful songs screeching in their ears. We push them to learn the world and honor all the skills of the world and want them to excel in the world. And where is the love of God in all that, an hour of Sunday School? Hardly. We are such idiots and forced hypocrites.