HELLO, I AM NEW HERE

[_Chap]

Well, not an 8 year old childs. An 8 year old child cannot possibly be held responsible for the covenants made at baptism because they were made without a full understanding of them AND the LDS church.

That isn't for me to decide. God made that rule. When someone is old enough to begin researching things, it is their responsibility to research them.

Simon, you continue to amaze and delight. But probably not for the reasons you would prefer.

ETA: And by "delight," I mean a mixture of fascination and profound horror.

Now we have been deprived of Droopy, we must do all we can to keep Belmont here and posting for us ...

[_Doctor Scratch]

Well, not an 8 year old childs. An 8 year old child cannot possibly be held responsible for the covenants made at baptism because they were made without a full understanding of them AND the LDS church.

That isn't for me to decide. God made that rule. When someone is old enough to begin researching things, it is their responsibility to research them.

There are plenty of people who did that and decided to leave the Church because of it. And your insistence that people have a "responsibility" to research is rather strange in light of what the Brethren (notably Elder Packer) have said about digging into problematic Church history.

[_rich kelsey]

Simon and Liz,

The question you are asking me is:

“Does Mormonism, in your opinion give people false hopes, lead them to shattered dreams, and waste their lives?”

Oh my!

I don’t want to hurt people’s feelings.” Or judge. Or tell people how to live their lives, or what they should believe.

I am not going to play the role of the Holy Ghost (Spirit).

Yet in all honesty, “yes, in some, if not many cases, I believe Mormonism does lead to false hopes, shattered dreams, and wasted lives.”

I am here to learn as well as to share what I have learned, yet one thing I have seen is the anguish many people have suffered when they find out certain things about Mormonism are false.

Here is a letter which is a good example of that:

http://richkelsey.org/letter_from_an_ac ... ber_of.htm

[_Simon Belmont]

Yet in all honesty, “yes, in some, if not many cases, I believe Mormonism does lead to false hopes, shattered dreams, and wasted lives.”

I am here to learn as well as to share what I have learned, yet one thing I have seen is the anguish many people have suffered when they find out certain things about Mormonism are false.

Certain things like what? Let's talk about it.

By the way, there are a lot of hateful, belligerent idiots on this board, and in this thread I will only be talking to you, Rich Kelsey. Okay?

Here is a letter which is a good example of that:

http://richkelsey.org/letter_from_an_ac ... ber_of.htm

Rich, come on. The Internet is full of those "insider" letters. Anti-Mormons use them all the time to appear as though they have some credibility.

[Guest]

Rich, come on. The Internet is full of those "insider" letters. Anti-Mormons use them all the time to appear as though they have some credibility.

I'll save you some time, Rich. Any document purporting to be by a former member of the CoJCoLDS that does not admit that they left the church because they were offended or wanted to sin, or that (worse) suggests that some persons in positions of authority in that church did not always behave as they should have done is an anti-mormon lie.

You will find a lot of stuff like that if you click here, for instance. There is an entire community here of people who call themselves 'Postmormons': lies, lies - they are making it all up. Satan tempted them, they fell, and that is all we need to know about them.

[_Simon Belmont]

See what I mean, Rich?

Of course I don't believe any of that, and neither does any right-minded LDS person.

I'll save you some time, Rich. Any document purporting to be by a former member of the CoJCoLDS that does not admit that they left the church because they were offended or wanted to sin, or that (worse) suggests that some persons in positions of authority in that church did not always behave as they should have done is an anti-mormon lie.

You will find a lot of stuff like that here, for instance. There is an entire community here of people who call themselves 'Postmormons': lies, lies - they are making it all up. Satan tempted them, they fell, and that is all we need to know about them.

[_Nightlion]

Oh my!

....

I am here to learn as well as to share what I have learned, yet one thing I have seen is the anguish many people have suffered when they find out certain things about Mormonism are false.

Hey, Rich,

I read some of your website. Anyone with your experience has potential in my book. Mormonism was never done right. Not from the beginning. This was the lament of Joseph Smith after he realized that he had allowed all sorts of characters to gather around him. He wanted to cleanse the Church and have a reformation. The tares had already come in and taken possession of the house. They dispatched him with the finesse of a craft he was only beginning to wake up to, it swarmed in upon him like wolves for the blood of the lamb.
For his own purposes the Lord allowed the wheat and the tares to grow together. Now is the time to separate the two, out from Mormonism, and out from among the world at large.

I think you can relate.

If you suffer here long you will realize I am a singular voice of my own experience here. I prefer cold to lukewarm. Those are the only options I have yet found.

And welcome.

[_Chap]

The Internet is full of those "insider" letters. Anti-Mormons use them all the time to appear as though they have some credibility.

See what I mean, Rich?

Of course I don't believe any of that, and neither does any right-minded LDS person.

Ah. So some of those "insider" letters that anti-mormons use "to appear as though they have some credibility" are genuine after all? Well, I think I have saved Rich some time. I hope he enjoys the links.

[_rich kelsey]

Hi Big Fry!

Simon!

Maybe I’m reading between the lines? Or, maybe I’m not?

Either way, I’m enjoying the dialog.

When you said,

“By the way, there are a lot of hateful, belligerent idiots on this board, and in this thread I will only be talking to you, Rich Kelsey. Okay?”

I couldn’t help but think that, in your mind, I might be one of “the hateful, belligerent idiots on this board.”

This may be humor at its best; Simon, I love it!

Yet, because you are choosing to just address this one ‘belligerent idiot’ (me) maybe that makes me special?

Please e-mail me or PM me. If it’s just you and me talking, there is no need to share our conversations with the entire world. E-mail: globalevangelism@msn.com

[Guest]

A little late to the party.

Nonetheless, welcome, Rich.

I found this board some time ago and just started posting again after being banned from the MADBoard (now MD&D) for the 4th (I think) time.

MD&D folks gets very uncomfortable with rational thinking. If one is not a Kool-Aid drinker, one does not last there long. Once they decide you need to go, you just get summarily banned, even though your posts broke none of the of published board rules.

Things are quite different here. If you want a mainly post-mormon view of things, on a very supportive and well mannered board, you might also try http://www.postmormon.org , assuming that you are not there already under some other name.

Again, Welcome.