HELLO, I AM NEW HERE

[_zeezrom]

I was, am, and continue to be utterly amazed at how many LDS people react to these letters from their very brethren (I Just don't get it)


Beyond BIZARRE, in my opinion.

Peace,
Ceeboo

Maybe because they don't look at the infidel as a brother anymore?

[_Droopy]

Hey Droopy,

A fairly standardized "why I left the Church" narrative, albeit significantly spiced with a heady dose of paranoia, delusional fantasies of persecution, conspiratorial thinking, personal moral and intellectual grandiosity, majestic self pity, and the usual plethora of logical contradictions and "presenting problems" of an internal nature reframed and externalized as problems within the Church.


Fascinating exit story boilerplate.

I think you may have missed heart-breaking, tragic, complicated, and enormously sad.


I was, am, and continue to be utterly amazed at how LDS people react to these letters from their very brethren (I Just don't get it)


Beyond BIZARRE, in my opinion.

Peace,
Ceeboo

Read the letter again carefully, and with a psychologists eye for what the material in that letter reveals about what actually going on inside this person as to personological dynamics and motives, and you may find something here altogether different.

What I see here is what I've seen many times before in my life, not only among those exiting, or having exited the Church, but among certain people generally who feature, as a core personological dynamic, the externalizing and projecting of their own internal conflicts, psychological/moral disorientation, and negative, self generated life circumstances outside of themselves and onto "scapegoats."

Its a central human weakness, and all too common. This letter is a virtual cornucopia of such psychological attributes.

[Guest]

A fairly standardized "why I left the Church" narrative, albeit significantly spiced with a heady dose of paranoia, delusional fantasies of persecution, conspiratorial thinking, personal moral and intellectual grandiosity, majestic self pity, and the usual plethora of logical contradictions and "presenting problems" of an internal nature reframed and externalized as problems within the Church.


Fascinating exit story boilerplate.

I think that, in his mellow way, Droopy is trying to tell us that a real person probably did write this in an attempt to describe his situation and the route by which he arrived at that situation.

But by the expression 'boilerplate', Droopy is attempting to alienate the reader from the text by implying, without any supporting argument, that in fact the origin of the letter is not the real-life experiences of the person who wrote it, but that person's encounter with other texts by people who left the church (either openly or secretly). The exiting person then produces variations and tropes on such texts in an attempt to justify his own moral failings which have rendered him unworthy of continued membership.

To turn an old phrase to new effect, the church is perfect, but the people who leave it aren't (that is, of course, why they left, correct?). So we should pay no attention to them, except as awful examples of what will happen to you should you fail to 'always keep a hold of nurse, for fear of finding something worse'.

[Edited to add: I see Droopy has now given us his supporting argument, which relies on us having confidence in his understanding of 'personological dynamics'. Good to know that.]

[_Buffalo]

This journey was so disruptive and internally tumultuous that I chose to travel it alone.

This is a very sad letter. It breaks my heart.

Sad and sadly familiar. :(

[_Buffalo]

Simon Belmont,

Since I have not heard from you in a PM or E-mail I quess you and I can discuss this issue here. However, I think it is only fair to let others join in.

Others can join in, of course. This is a public message board.

So you've read a lot of these "exit stories" -- so have I. I'll make two points here:

(1) One thing rings true for most of these "exit stories": the people in them don't take responsibility for themselves and for their choices in life. By that I mean: who is responsible for learning about one's faith? If I, for example, joined a Southern Baptist congregation and was completely ignorant of some of the black spots on its history (namely racism), that's my fault, not the SBC's. If I later become disillusioned with the faith because of that racism, I have no right to blame the leaders of the SBC or other members of the SBC for "duping" me. It was my choice to join, and it is mine to leave if I choose.

(2) For every "exit story" there is a powerful testimony of a faithful member who understands that no organization is perfect. For every "exit story" there is a faithful member who knows the historical problems with Mormonism yet remains faithful.

A good example is Mormon Scholars Testify.
Another is Don Bradley's story.

The vast majority of faithful members are unaware of the various problems we typically talk about here. I guess faithful Mormons are just lazy people, right Simon?

[_Ceeboo]

Hey again, Droopy (Thanks for the reply)

Its a central human weakness, and all too common. This letter is a virtual cornucopia of such psychological attributes.

[/quote]

in my opinion, what is a "central human weakness, and all too common" is the need for one human being to stand in judgement of another human being (That they may not even know, by the way). This strong desire to defend at all costs, very often, completely eliminates the opportunity to offer human compassion, understanding, and/or the ability to extend a hand of friendship/support to those who may very well desire/need it the most at a given point in their journey.

I dunno, seems to me that when we find people in pain or struggling, THAT is the time when we SHOULD consider them first and formost (Perhaps placing our personal beliefs/opinions on hold for a moment might be worthy of serious consideration).

Justy my take (thanks for the ear)

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Doctor Scratch]

(2) For every "exit story" there is a powerful testimony of a faithful member who understands that no organization is perfect. For every "exit story" there is a faithful member who knows the historical problems with Mormonism yet remains faithful.

A good example is Mormon Scholars Testify.
Another is Don Bradley's story.

Yeah, I figured you were using your Skywalker sockpuppet over on MDD in order to ask Don about his story so that you could later use it to score points. Surprise, surprise.

[_Yoda]

This is a very sad letter. It breaks my heart.

Pretty hostile letter too. That is the saddest part--the blame is all on some others it seems. He wishes to attribute to the leaders of the Church something that doesn't appear there to me--they are knowingly pushing something they don't believe in. I don't get the need for anyone to start attributing things like that in others. Its very reminiscent of that which he decries--the assumption that people who don't believe don't believe because of sin or that they were offended.

With that said, I think it very reasonable that people leave the Church after years of being in it, when exposed to some things associated with the Church. Its going to happen. His case does seem like a sad one. What can I, or the brethren do for him? Accept the conclusions he's drawn? it seems like he's demanded that, or nothing else will satisfy him. Sadly.

You make a very good point, Stem.

First of all, it seems that, in spite of this brother's hostilities, he has chosen to remain in the Church. And, really, from the Church's standpoint, he really isn't hurting anyone. From what he stated, he is serving faithfully in several callings, and is also supportive of his children's choices with missions, temple marriages, etc. He is obviously also paying his tithing, albeit, perhaps begrudgingly.

I doubt that the recipient of this letter will do anything. There is really no reason for him to try to "track him down". This brother is not hurting anyone but himself. Unfortunately, for him, he is drowning in his own bitterness.

I feel the emotional pain that this brother is suffering, and sincerely hope that he is able to find some semblance of peace.

Stem is right in the fact that, how he laid things out in his letter, there is really little that anyone in the Church can do for him. He has made up his mind as far as the truthfulness of the Church, and, I believe, that in some cases, has drawn conclusions that are not valid.

I think that, if he was actually hoping for a positive change, and wanted to provide that change from within the Church, a good step would be to encourage leaders to provide more Church history in a more forthright fashion, and not hide behind sanitized versions of history and Church background.

Now, before all of the TBM's in this thread jump down my throat and claim that the Church does not do this, let's call a spade a spade. I am 47 years old, and have been a member of the Church all my life. I graduated from seminary, attended religion classes at BYU and Institute classes while going to school in California.

I knew of Joseph Smith's polygamy, but not about his polyandry until about five years ago. I also did not know about the different versions of the First Vision, and the MMM incident until about five years ago.

I consider myself pretty knowledgable when it comes to the gospel, have been a member of the Church all my life, and yet did not learn about these issues until fairly recently. And, yes, these incidents did shake me up.

It has taken time but I have been able to work through my faith struggle, and am content in my NOM'ishness, which, I know, still offends some of you.

[_Simon Belmont]

Yeah, I figured you were using your Skywalker sockpuppet over on MDD in order to ask Don about his story so that you could later use it to score points. Surprise, surprise.

Huh?

I mentioned Don because we've exchanged a couple of PMs and I enjoy his story.

[_Yoda]

Yeah, I figured you were using your Skywalker sockpuppet over on MDD in order to ask Don about his story so that you could later use it to score points. Surprise, surprise.

Huh?

I mentioned Don because we've exchanged a couple of PMs and I enjoy his story.

Actually, Don's story is very faith-promoting, and really shows the other side of the spectrum. Does he have it published anywhere?