Boy, was I wrong

[_jon]

You see what you want to see and don't see what you don't wanna.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Wade finally stumbles across the key to Mormonism...

[_Bond James Bond]

Wade,

You are a good guy, and I like you a lot, so I’m gonna level with you. My Dad has a few ties with some of the Brethren via business, he was able to put me in touch with two individuals, who had the common decency to hear me out. I calmly explained to them, that I thought Will was bad PR, and that he would damage the Church’s image if any of his work saw the light of day. Both seemed very interested and told me they’d have a talk about M.I. and see if they couldn’t do something about it.

The “threats” you probably heard about were from me. I couldn’t let Will’s work get out there, I had to do something and I did.

No it was me. I'm Spartacus! ;)

[_beastie]

I appreciate you stating this for the record. And, while I think you were wildly mistaken in your judgements of Will and your actions to silence him, I still view you as a good guy too.

At the very least this means that my so-called impression wasn't entirely without merit, my alleged obfuscations notwithstanding.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I suspect Wade's paranoia has gotten the best of him.

[_Kevin Graham]

When MsJack posted her expose of Will's misogyny it was essentially old news for most folks posting here. We were treated to a walk down memory lane, but those who were shocked the most were those least familiar with Will's posting history. Ninety minutes after she posted this, someone finally responded (Tator) applauding her effort. For the next four hours no one responds, until Will Schryver jumps in and offers a true catalyst for hateful expression. He posts twice, essentially attacking MSJack as a "propagandist" and a "liar" despite his previous claims that he would welcome any effort to collect his citations attacking beastie and others. He decided to deny having made a remark which he previously admitted making.

Two hours later Themis, beastie and Liz responded to Will's attack on MsJack. And this pretty much sets the stage for what is to come for the next 50+ pages. Contrary to what wade and others would have us believe, hate-drunk individuals did not jump on a bandwagon attacking William. For the most part the initial responses expressed gratitude for MsJack's efforts, or they were responding to Will's denials and the lame arguments posed by his defenders.

For most of the next morning, rockslider, harmony, me, DadofaMormon, ceeboo, DrCam, and wisdomseeker all responded to William's unjustified attacks on MsJack. Inconceivable apologized to her on behalf of other LDS apologists.

By noon, Kishkumen popped in only to say he wanted to make it clear that he wasn't involved in any of this, despite William's insinuations to the contrary. He also had no interest in commenting further on the thread. Mr.Stak, Buffalo and Jason Bourne posted in the afternoon with brief comments. Only Buffalo's could in any way be interpreted as an attack on William, as he points out how unbecoming of a Christian it is to be a married man with this kind of posting history towards women.

For the next two hours, Will and Droopy combine for ten posts, mostly consisting of assaults on MsJack's character. This is what kicked the hornet's nest as more and more people came to defend her against the guy who, ironically, is trying to prove he isn't a misogynist. Between late afternoon and early evening, Will, Droopy, wade and simon would combine for another twenty-six posts attacking anyone who wasn't a Willpologist.

During this time Will encourages MsJack to extend her efforts by posting this on her blog. This is hardly the response of someone who feels he's been attacked by a hate mob. He wanted us to advertise these previous citations as much as possible, thinking no matter what, the LDS members from all corners would rally to his defense. His main gripe involved the dreaded C-word incident, which he felt he had enough leeway for plausible deniability. He spent most of the night attacking the numerous witnesses who testified that they saw him post this before it was deleted by the mods. The Willpologists gradually piled on everyone in this group, insisting Will was telling the truth despite his recent history of lying about calling Emma Smith the B-word.

So no, there is no evidence whatsoever that MsJack was engaged in any sort of hatefest. This thread would have probably died on a very short vine had Will and his apologists not invaded the thread early on with one attack after another, towards anyone who didn't immediately dismiss MsJack as a liar and a "propagandist."

[_Kishkumen]

During this time Will encourages MsJack to extend her efforts by posting this on her blog. This is hardly the response of someone who feels he's been attacked by a hate mob. He wanted us to advertise these previous citations as much as possible, thinking no matter what, the LDS members from all corners would rally to his defense.

Yeah, I guess Will's supporters are pretty sore that his assumptions didn't pan out in the end. And, it seems pretty silly to complain about people pursuing things that Will himself encouraged them to do. He is the one who boasted of being coated with Teflon. His keyboard wrote checks that his actual reputation among apologists with real clout could not cash, or so it would appear.

[_DrW]

Kevin,

As someone who has been mostly following this disaster from a safe distance, I felt compelled to pop in again and tell you that the time you have taken to re-read and analyze the development of the original WS thread is appreciated by me, and no doubt others who came late to the WS self-immolation.

Your post from a few pages ago (Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:28 pm) makes it pretty clear that not only the facts set forth by MsJack in the original WS thread, but the apologetic disaster that has resulted, are clearly Will's own doing, assisted in no small measure by the Willpologists.

Unlike the Willpologists, who seem incapable of doing anything at this point but expressing feelings of persecution and frustration, you are willing to take the time to find and bring relevant facts to the discussion.

As one who has watched the approach and tactics of Mormon apologists for a long time, the juxtaposition of your contribution on this thread to that of wenglund seems to me a prime example of how apologetics becomes ineffective against facts, reason and logic.

Nonetheless, IMHO, you could improve your contributions here by refraining from the few insults that you do throw out now and then, such as referring to certain apologists as idiots, for example. Pahoran and other apologists seem to depend on insults as (what they imagine to be) a tactic in polemics and/or simply to get attention. Instead of the ad hominem attacks, why not simply lay out the facts (as you do so well) so that the idiocy becomes self evident to the reader?

[_Kishkumen]

...you are willing to take the time to find and bring relevant facts to the discussion.

As one who has watched the approach and tactics of Mormon apologists for a long time, the juxtaposition of your contribution on this thread to that of wenglund seems to me a prime example of how apologetics becomes ineffective against facts, reason and logic.

Nonetheless, IMHO, you could improve your contributions here by refraining from the few insults that you do throw out now and then, such as referring to certain apologists as idiots, for example. Pahoran and other apologists seem to depend on insults as (what they imagine to be) a tactic in polemics and/or simply to get attention. Instead of the ad hominem attacks, why not simply lay out the facts (as you do so well) so that the idiocy becomes self evident to the reader?

DrW, this is just Kevin. The thing is, as you observe, Kevin brings relevant facts to a discussion. He goes digging for important facts that other people seem not to be willing to chase down. He goes back to reread threads to track the path of a discussion. Most people are content to insult and think only of how to respond to the most recent barb of their enemy. Not Kevin. Kevin is a real treasure. It is no wonder that he has made friends among people in all camps. Wise people read through the peppery rhetoric and see valuable meat in his posts. And, frankly, it is not infrequently the case that the person he is poking at well deserves it.

[_malaise]

On the Misogyny thread, there are roughly 350 posts by the numerous Willpologists including Will, droopy, wade, Pahoran, simon and Schryver's various sock puppets (malaise, Silver hammer, Nomad)

Demonstrate that I am Will's sock puppet or go “F” yourself. not everyone agrees with your fucktarded witch hunt kevin.

[_Kishkumen]

Demonstrate that I am Will's sock puppet or go f*** yourself. not everyone agrees with your fucktarded witch hunt kevin.

Damn, malaise. I see that you are not a Will sock puppet, but when you first arrived it seemed possible. 'Tis one of the many risks of hopping into the fray as an unknown person, when sock puppets are out in force. I am sure it will get sorted out.

[_Buffalo]

I appreciate liz, runtu, and malkie deny knowing about or making threats. This comes as no surprise since they weren't really on the suspect list to begin with.

There are others that I mentioned who also are not suspected, like Buffalo and Chaps. I can't see anyone taking seriously anything they say or do, threat or otherwise.

However, when Chief Inspector Jacques Clouseau Graham finishes crunching all his meaningless numbers, let's see if he is willing to go on record.

Maybe he, or some else here, can talk MsJack, harmony, beastie, and Stak into going on record. We will see.

I fully expect that Scratch will continue to side-step, but what else is new?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Your tin foil hattery is, as always, hilarious. Thanks for the lulz.