Grant Palmer has talked a fair amount about the witnesses to the Book of Mormon/gold plates and whether or not they saw physical literal plates or if they only saw them in vision/by the eyes of their understanding. He seems agree with Martin Harris that none of the witnesses saw the plates with their natural eyes but instead with the 'eyes of faith.'
Related to that, Palmer claims that at least some of the witnesses were hesitant to sign the 'testimony' document prepared by Joseph Smith because it sounded more literal than the experience had been. I don't remember if it was in his Insider's View book but he mentions it during the Mormon Stories podcast he did.
My question:
Does anyone know where Palmer comes up with the claim that the witnesses were hesitant to sign? What is his source? Inquiring minds want to know.
Were the Book of Mormon Witnesses Hesitant to Sign?
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Were the Book of Mormon Witnesses Hesitant to Sign?
Crawling around the evidence in order to maintain a testimony of the Book of Mormon.
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Re: Were the Book of Mormon Witnesses Hesitant to Sign?
I've always been curious about the process through which the statements were written and agreed to.
I doubt all 8 sat down and drafted the statement democratically. Did someone write it and present it to them? If so, who?
I doubt all 8 sat down and drafted the statement democratically. Did someone write it and present it to them? If so, who?
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Re: Were the Book of Mormon Witnesses Hesitant to Sign?
Was anything signed? I don't remember ever seeing signatures. Just a statement with a bunch of names listed. Was there a signed document? Maybe Joseph smith figured printed names would look better than a bunch of Xs.
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Re: Were the Book of Mormon Witnesses Hesitant to Sign?
Where do we find the original of the signed statement?
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Bow your head and mutter, what in hell am I doing here?
infaymos wrote: "Peterson is the defacto king ping of the Mormon Apologetic world."
Bow your head and mutter, what in hell am I doing here?
infaymos wrote: "Peterson is the defacto king ping of the Mormon Apologetic world."
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Re: Were the Book of Mormon Witnesses Hesitant to Sign?
Joseph wrote:Where do we find the original of the signed statement?
Now that is an interesting question.
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Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.
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Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.
Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.
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Re: Were the Book of Mormon Witnesses Hesitant to Sign?
jon wrote:Now that is an interesting question.Joseph wrote:Where do we find the original of the signed statement?
It will be committed into our hands as keys of the next dispensation and by this we may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.
Yea, it will be committed into our hands by Elias or by any other translation error of the KJV.
For behold.
And it came to pass.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
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Re: Were the Book of Mormon Witnesses Hesitant to Sign?
Hello,
What I find interesting is a Mopologist will throw William Clayton under the bus, but we're supposed to take the 8 Witnesses' testimonies at face value.
What a weird world they live in...
V/R
Dr. Cameron
What I find interesting is a Mopologist will throw William Clayton under the bus, but we're supposed to take the 8 Witnesses' testimonies at face value.
What a weird world they live in...
V/R
Dr. Cameron
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
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Re: Were the Book of Mormon Witnesses Hesitant to Sign?
In my work on the Golden Plates we can find these quotes:
The golden plates have always fascinated me. They are so mysterious! I love the part of Smith’s story when God speaking through Smith said,
The obvious question: Who is really speaking here, God through Smith, or Smith pretending to be God?
Badseed.
As far as your question about whether some of the Book of Mormon witnesses were hesitant to sign the document?
Perhaps you will find the answer here: http://www.exmormon.org/file9.htm
“Some of the witnesses of the Book of Mormon, who handled the plates and conversed with the angels of God, were afterwards left to doubt and to disbelieve that they had ever seen an angel. One of the Quorum of the Twelve - a young man full of faith and good works, prayed, and the vision of his mind was opened, and the angel of God came and laid the plates before him, and he saw and handled them, and saw the angel, and conversed with him as he would with one of his friends; but after all this, he was left to doubt, and plunged into apostacy, and has continued to contend against this work. There are hundreds in a similar condition.” (Brigham Young, JoD: vol. 7 p. 164, June 5, 1859)
“The golden plates are history's most stunning 'find' in the field of religion.” (Neal A. Maxwell)
The golden plates have always fascinated me. They are so mysterious! I love the part of Smith’s story when God speaking through Smith said,
“Behold, I say unto you, that as my servant Martin Harris has desired a witness at my hand, that you, my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., have got the plates of which you have testified and borne record that you have received of me;” (D&C 5:1)
The obvious question: Who is really speaking here, God through Smith, or Smith pretending to be God?
Badseed.
As far as your question about whether some of the Book of Mormon witnesses were hesitant to sign the document?
Perhaps you will find the answer here: http://www.exmormon.org/file9.htm
My site:
http://richkelsey.org/index.htm
If you haven’t read my articles on Mormonism please go to the site and read them.
Rich Kelsey
http://richkelsey.org/index.htm
If you haven’t read my articles on Mormonism please go to the site and read them.
Rich Kelsey