Joseph Smith mega thread. We'll see

[_stemelbow]

You don't see any difference between Joseph's self-serving lie and a fib that's based on something more subjective (how someone looks)?

I didn't say there was no difference. But in truth lying to one's wife is quite self-serving in a way too. That's not my point.

If Joseph was willing to lie about something as important polygamy, what else did he lie about?

I don't know. In a conventional sense he might not have thought he was lying anyway.

[_sock puppet]

You don't see any difference between Joseph's self-serving lie and a fib that's based on something more subjective (how someone looks)?

I didn't say there was no difference. But in truth lying to one's wife is quite self-serving in a way too. That's not my point.

If Joseph was willing to lie about something as important polygamy, what else did he lie about?

I don't know. In a conventional sense he might not have thought he was lying anyway.

In a conventional sense, JSJR might not have realized he was copulating with women other than Emma.

Wow, so the defense is he was a pep-pep'er like you stem, not know what was going on?

[_stemelbow]

Wo unto the liar for he shall be thrust down to hell. With the exception of Joseph Smith cuz I totally told him to lie. *wink* We are also told that God cannot lie or he will cease to be god. If god told Smith to lie about polygamy god ceased to exist....and indeed that is what happened for many a critic.

Sorry. I do not believe that is a viable option given the scriptures.

Also, it is unethical to have people join a church without letting them know all the details. There were people who gave up everything to join the church and follow the damn prophet only to find out about polygamy later. Not happy times.

But if Joseph's story is authentic as he tells it, regarding polygamy, then its not that God lied but that he either allowed Joseph Smith to lie and said its okay if he did.

[_just me]

"I'm going to say this again: I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky." President Clinton

Yeah, there seems to be a theme among powerful men. Delude themselves as to what they are doing so it isn't really a "lie." Hmmmm.

Joseph Smith broke the law and the laws of the church when he started practicing polygamy or celestial marriage or whatever you want to call it.

Stem, could you please show me where Joseph Smith affirms practicing polygamy? As far as I know he denied it to the death.

[_Buffalo]

If Joseph was willing to lie about something as important polygamy, what else did he lie about?

I don't know. In a conventional sense he might not have thought he was lying anyway.

Perhaps if he was a pathological liar and had lied so much he couldn't distinguish fact from fiction anymore. But that's probably not what you meant.

[_sock puppet]

"I'm going to say this again: I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky." President Clinton

Yeah, there seems to be a theme among powerful men. Delude themselves as to what they are doing so it isn't really a "lie." Hmmmm.

Joseph Smith broke the law and the laws of the church when he started practicing polygamy or celestial marriage or whatever you want to call it.

Stem, could you please show me where Joseph Smith affirms practicing polygamy? As far as I know he denied it to the death.

And worse, in my opinion, the LDS Church continued the denials after his death.

[_sock puppet]

Wo unto the liar for he shall be thrust down to hell. With the exception of Joseph Smith cuz I totally told him to lie. *wink* We are also told that God cannot lie or he will cease to be god. If god told Smith to lie about polygamy god ceased to exist....and indeed that is what happened for many a critic.

Sorry. I do not believe that is a viable option given the scriptures.

Also, it is unethical to have people join a church without letting them know all the details. There were people who gave up everything to join the church and follow the damn prophet only to find out about polygamy later. Not happy times.

But if Joseph's story is authentic as he tells it, regarding polygamy, then its not that God lied but that he either allowed Joseph Smith to lie and said its okay if he did.

If its authentic as JSJr told it, then the "new and everlasting covenant" necessary to exaltation would not have been stopped by the LDS Church--unless as Nightlion would remind us, the LDS Church is itself in apostasy.

[Guest]

Here is where god tells the church that they do not need to break the laws of the land to obey him.

D&C 58:21 Let no man break the laws of the land, for he that keepeth the laws of God hath no need to break the laws of the land.

Who was wrong? God or Smith?

[_Buffalo]

But if Joseph's story is authentic as he tells it, regarding polygamy, then its not that God lied but that he either allowed Joseph Smith to lie and said its okay if he did.

Your god seems awfully inconsistent. First it's "Satan is the father of lies," then it's "go ahead and lie, Joseph." First it's "we don't have to follow the law if we don't like it" then it's "we believe in following the law of the land." What kind of God is this that you're worshiping, Stem?

[_stemelbow]

Here's my question now...

is it reasonable to conclude that the Old Testament, or specific incidences in the Old Testament, set a precedent in Joseph Smith' mind regarding polygamy? That Joseph Smith thought it was of God, even though it was not, and went ahead with it anyway, and Joseph Smith still be a prophet?