Buffalo wrote:I'm sure he got the idea from the Old Testament - Joseph was an avid Bible reader. I read somewhere that he learned to read using the Bible - not sure if that's true.
If I recall correctly, there IS a Bible prohibition against marrying sisters, which Joseph did. Also, no justification for polyandry.
If even one of his "plural marriages" were invalid, that would make him an adulterer. So I don't think he could be a prophet then.
Or then again, why not? Apparently the god of the old testament is cool with genocide, infanticide, rape and slavery. Adultery is pretty minor comparatively.
Good point, Buffalo. If God in the Old Testament can be said to be the cause of the things you mention, or if the people in the Old Testament, including prophets attributed these things to God and were still prophets, then why assume Joseph Smith can't make such blunders and not be a prophet?
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
stemelbow wrote:Its section 58, but that's a great point. Not at all easily reconciled. So did Joseph Smith think sealing for eternity was breaking the laws of the land?
Why would he keep it secret if it wasn't. by the way, the early church under Brigham Young went to great lengths to show in a court of law that Joseph was sexual with women besides Emma. I hope you are not going to suggest otherwise. (see Temple Lot Case)
Oh, and if he wasn't sexual with them he was in direct defiance of D&C 132. Actually, he defied parts of it anyway. Oops.
Just sayin'.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
stemelbow wrote: Its section 58, but that's a great point. Not at all easily reconciled. So did Joseph Smith think sealing for eternity was breaking the laws of the land?
Polygamy was illegal in Illinois.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
just me wrote:Why would he keep it secret if it wasn't.
Because "outsiders" might perceive it as polygamy? Its not hard to see it as polygamy, even though in his mind he somehow justified it to the point of it not really being polygamy. I don't know.
by the way, the early church under Brigham Young went to great lengths to show in a court of law that Joseph was sexual with women besides Emma. I hope you are not going to suggest otherwise. (see Temple Lot Case)
I don't have that interest no.
Oh, and if he wasn't sexual with them he was in direct defiance of D&C 132. Actually, he defied parts of it anyway. Oops.
Just sayin'.
But could he have been sexual with some and not others? Sure.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
Buffalo wrote:I'm sure he got the idea from the Old Testament - Joseph was an avid Bible reader. I read somewhere that he learned to read using the Bible - not sure if that's true.
If I recall correctly, there IS a Bible prohibition against marrying sisters, which Joseph did. Also, no justification for polyandry.
If even one of his "plural marriages" were invalid, that would make him an adulterer. So I don't think he could be a prophet then.
Or then again, why not? Apparently the god of the old testament is cool with genocide, infanticide, rape and slavery. Adultery is pretty minor comparatively.
Good point, Buffalo. If God in the Old Testament can be said to be the cause of the things you mention, or if the people in the Old Testament, including prophets attributed these things to God and were still prophets, then why assume Joseph Smith can't make such blunders and not be a prophet?
Well, that's a problem for all Christians (and anyone else who follows an Abrahamic religion). How do you reconcile the God of the New Testament (and the Book of Mormon) with the god of the Old Testament? Is the God of the Old Testament someone worthy of worship? I concluded that he wasn't. So any prophet following that god and his loose morals was also not worthy my loyalty.
And of course, without Yahweh and his abominations, there is no Christianity. So, here I am, yet another Mormon turned atheist.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
If Joseph had sex with anyone besides Emma he broke the law of the land as well as the law of the church.
Court of love says! Excommunication. Game over.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
stemelbow wrote: But if Joseph's story is authentic as he tells it, regarding polygamy, then its not that God lied but that he either allowed Joseph Smith to lie and said its okay if he did.
Once again, is this your omnipotent, omni-loving God? The only way He could accomplish His will was to tell His one prophet of the restoration, the right hand of Jesus, to lie to his wife and the larger world about "marrying" other women? Even with all the mayhem and tribalism in the Old Testament, I don't think God ever tells His servants to bear false witness. This only happens in the LDS scriptures. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
But in his mind, perhaps he didn't accept it that this eternal sealing wasn't straight up polygamy.
Having sex outside his marriage was illegal according to the laws of the land and the laws of the church. He knew that. He wasn't that stupid.
There were laws against unlawful cohabitation, bigamy and adultery. It was against the laws of the church to engage is sex outside of monogamous marriage, covet your neighbors wife, practice polygamy, adultery, fornication, etc.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~