TBM - does this term offend you?

[_Mayan Elephant]

Since you've asked . . .

"TBM" has always seemed to me to connote some greater or lesser degree of condescension or even disrespect.

I don't like the term.

that is very very interesting dan. i have been called anti-mormon by you many times. and my friends have as well. it is interesting that a reference to being a true believing Mormon is considered a pejorative, but, the term anti-mormon or so-calleded-whatever is thrown around like mardi gras beads in your circle.

i don't use the term tbm much, because i don't even know how a true believer would be described. is it someone that believes that women should only have one, and i repeat one, pair of holes in her ear? or is it someone that believes that masturbation causes homosexuality which causes bestiality which causes the constitution to hang by a thread?

really. if someone was a TRUE and BELIEVING follower of the LDS faith, they would be probably be certifiably unwell. if someone really believed in everything that was in the journal of discourses, for example, they would probably be experiencing a tough life in 2011. if someone really believed in the pre-1991 temple kookiness, where we were slashing our throats and bellies, they might have a problem today.

so, while i think dan is out of place to take offense, i think the term itself is not very accurate of anyone. there are no true believers. it is impossible to truly believe it all. there are too many conflicts and compromises to be a true believer. even if someone is parking themselves on the wooden benches for 70 minutes every sunday, and then a folding chair for 50 minutes, and then a padded folding chair for 50 minutes, and then doing their hometeaching on the 30th or 31st, they are still not believing it all. there are no TRUE believers because it is unbelievable.

[_Buffalo]

Since you've asked . . .

"TBM" has always seemed to me to connote some greater or lesser degree of condescension or even disrespect.

I don't like the term.

that is very very interesting dan. i have been called anti-mormon by you many times. and my friends have as well. it is interesting that a reference to being a true believing Mormon is considered a pejorative, but, the term anti-mormon or so-calleded-whatever is thrown around like mardi gras beads in your circle.

i don't use the term tbm much, because i don't even know how a true believer would be described. is it someone that believes that women should only have one, and i repeat one, pair of holes in her ear? or is it someone that believes that masturbation causes homosexuality which causes bestiality which causes the constitution to hang by a thread?

really. if someone was a TRUE and BELIEVING follower of the LDS faith, they would be probably be certifiably unwell. if someone really believed in everything that was in the journal of discourses, for example, they would probably be experiencing a tough life in 2011. if someone really believed in the pre-1991 temple kookiness, where we were slashing our throats and bellies, they might have a problem today.

so, while i think dan is out of place to take offense, i think the term itself is not very accurate of anyone. there are no true believers. it is impossible to truly believe it all. there are too many conflicts and compromises to be a true believer. even if someone is parking themselves on the wooden benches for 70 minutes every sunday, and then a folding chair for 50 minutes, and then a padded folding chair for 50 minutes, and then doing their hometeaching on the 30th or 31st, they are still not believing it all. there are no TRUE believers because it is unbelievable.

Well, I'd agree that in absolute terms, ALL Mormons are cafeteria Mormons. No one can accept all of that stuff.

You make a good point about "anti-Mormon," too.

How about it Dan? I don't mean TBM pejoratively, but because some find it pejorative I'm going to stop using it. Are you willing to do the same with the term anti-Mormon?

[_zeezrom]

Believer, Mormon believer, believing Mormon, faithful Mormon, convinced Mormon, orthodox Mormon, mainstream Mormon -- there are probably scores of terms that I would find less off-putting.

The term "critic" offends me. How about "convinced person".

[_Buffalo]

Personally I'm not offended by the term anti-Mormon. I don't think it's necessarily used accurately, but whatever.

[_Infymus]

I see it as an accuracy gauge between the level of indoctrination. It goes along with cafeteria Mormon, chapel Mormon, Jack Mormon and Internet Mormon.

A "True Blue Mormon" is someone beyond just a chapel Mormon.

Their conversations are riddled with callings, tithing, temples and church gossip. These kinds of people generally stay in close groups because they become disoriented outside of group think. They have their Internet home page set to LDS.org, carry their scriptures with them constantly and pray over their food at restaurants. Their lives are soaked up in callings and church service. They obey intensely - dedicating their lives to the cult. They hang on the words at conference and read the Ensign as if it were scripture. They view anything not associated with the church as spiritual pornography.

TBMs quite frankly are a dry, boring lot. The kind you won't find here or in the apologetic circles.

[_consiglieri]

Going just from an old memory, I thought the term may have originated from a story from the early life of a church leader (Joseph F. Smith?) when he was caught by some desperadoes who made it clear they were out to hurt Church members, and when they asked him if he were a Mormon, instead of denying it, he answered, "Dyed in the wool, true and blue!"

Or did I just make that up . . . ?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

Do you feel this is a derogatory term? Or is it neutral?

I've always taken it as being a neutral term for "orthodox" Mormons.

I've never been offended by it. If someone used it in reference to me, and they intended to cast aspersions by its use, it still wouldn't bother me. I try not to let irrelevant people offend me.

Note: Haven't posted here for about a year. Didn't want to entirely miss out on the Board War. :)

Sorry, you are irrelevant here :)

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

Since you've asked . . .

"TBM" has always seemed to me to connote some greater or lesser degree of condescension or even disrespect.

I don't like the term.

The way I recall, it was used derrogatorily at RFM back in the day, but I don't recall your being there.

Why not just let "TBM" evolve into a neutral, useful, and easy-to-type term for believing Mormons (and as already pointed out, it sounds nicer than BM).

I shudder every time I see the word "cult" used on these boards because the definition is just too broad to be useful and it can only take discussion off course. That doesn't mean I don't clearly see aspects of cultism in the church and those aspects aren't worthy of discussion; just that the word itself is too loaded to be thrown about casually.

Anti-Mormon is derogatory and (IMHO) reflects badly on the user. It carries with it a "poor persecuted me" mindset every time it is slung at someone. On one hand, anti-Mormons are a staple in testimony-building, how would you know you are right if Satan weren't riling anti's up against you, and you're happy to have them. On the other hand, though, from my perspective of being out of the church for many years now, that a church would have so many enemies simply reflects badly on the church; it is doing something wrong.

Anyway, to get back to the subject, I'm a little disappointed that some people are carrying hurt feelings over "TBM," which is the one term I thought I could use with neutrality.

[_Quasimodo]

Personally I'm not offended by the term anti-Mormon. I don't think it's necessarily used accurately, but whatever.

I've been called anti-Mormon more than a few times on this board. I've never really taken offense, but, like you, I feel it's inaccurate. I will admit to being anti-Joseph and I'm especially anti-Brigham. I hold no "anti" feelings towards the members of the LDS Church. Kinda feel sorry for them.

[_moksha]

Since you've asked . . .

"TBM" has always seemed to me to connote some greater or lesser degree of condescension or even disrespect.

I don't like the term.

I agree. I see the phrase True Believing Mormon as a form of condescension against those who do not hold a harsh interpretation of God and Gospel. Those who hold a loving interpretation of God and Gospel are just as true in their own belief, yet are made to feel out of compliance with the strictness of those who declare they and only they are TBMs.