An Apple

[_Polygamy-Porter]

An Apple in your hand?

I would congratulate you for purchasing a MacBook Pro.

[_Hades]

I guess the Holy Ghost tells me it's an apple. How else could I know? I better not deny that it's an apple or I will go to hell.

[_jon]

Is it Adam's?

[_sock puppet]

That better be an apple and not your pair of testicles in the hand, Simon!

[_DarkHelmet]

I guess the Holy Ghost tells me it's an apple. How else could I know? I better not deny that it's an apple or I will go to hell.

Yes. Confirmation from the holy ghost is the only way to know for sure.

[_truth dancer]

When I hold what appears to be an apple, (based on my experience), and contemplate it for more than a second or two, I find myself fascinated that this energy form, if I bite it and bring it into my energy form, will, turn into me.

So, amazing!

;-)

~td~

[_sock puppet]

When I hold what appears to be an apple, (based on my experience), and contemplate it for more than a second or two, I find myself fascinated that this energy form, if I bite it and bring it into my energy form, will, turn into me.

So, amazing!

;-)

~td~

Well, some of the energy form will, the rest won't.

[_Everybody Wang Chung]

This gets my vote for the worst OP in the history of the internet.

[_gramps]

Simon,

Was your Master's Thesis in philosophy on this subject? Maybe you can just direct us to a link of that thesis and we can start reading, while we wait for the big surprise. ;)

[_Simon Belmont]

I don't know of anything that is 100% certain. Even some axioms in mathematics are in dispute (at least the Axiom of Choice and to a lesser extent the Axiom of Infinity).

That much is certain.

When I hold an apple in my hand, I don't internally go through any formal thinking process. I simply perceive the apple and believe I have one in my hand. Now, were I in a more contemplative mood, I may reflect that although I am subject to hallucinations, drugs, faulty memories, and even deception (maybe it's a fake apple)--my recollection of past experience indicates the most likely explanation for what I current perceive is that in fact I do have an apple in my hand. Is that this kind of inductive reasoning actually justified? Maybe not. Hume would seem to argue that it is not justified--at least not in the realm of pure philosophy. I, on the other hand, am an engineer and look for a pragmatic solution. The most likely explanation is that I really do have an apple in my hand. I could even put together probability formulas which spell out my assumptions and give a fuzzy probability figure based on those assumptions.

If my memory or logical thinking abilities are systematically flawed in regards to perceiving an apple then there's not much I can do about that is there? Extreme skepticism is as impractical as extreme gullibility. It's best to be skeptical when there's a reason to be suspicious about the circumstances. If it's April 1st I may be a bit more cautious about what appears to be an apple.


ETA: The key notion, I'm told, is Justified True Belief. What makes it justified? I'm sure that's under dispute, but there you have it. I thought this has already been discussed to death with you especially in regards to Andromeda.

Thank you for your thoughtful response, and I agree with it.

I am going a different direction with the apple than I am with Andromeda.

I don't really understand the question.

I was taught that an apple is called an apple when I was very little. Now if I am holding one of those items that I was taught is an apple I know that it is an apple using my senses of touch, sight and maybe smell. The messages travel to my brain and my brain makes the conclusion that I am holding an apple.

Yeah. Something like that.

Okay, just me, would it be correct to say that ultimately, the apple is interpreted by your brain to be an apple?

You premised the hypothetical on my holding an apple, so thus, I'm holding an apple in your hypothetical.

Is the premise hypothetical, or is the apple?

That's easy. Simple verification. You compare it against other apples. If you have had experiences with apples, you don't even need to look at other apples to verify that it is indeed an apple. If someone hands you a banana and says it is an apple, it will fail your verification test.

Suppose they hand me something sphere-like and red, with a stem, but not an apple?

That is a learned response to a specific set of stimuli that each of us has previously experienced. Our society has taught us that this set of stimuli is that we are 'holding an apple in our hand'. So, if I want to determine if I am holding an apple in my hand, I compare the set of stimuli under consideration against the set of stimuli I encountered previously when such was described as my 'holding an apple in my hand'. If the set of stimuli under consideration bears, through that comparison, all the sine qua non earmarks of being my 'holding an apple in my hand', then I am going to conclude that I am holding an apple in my hand, whatever that might mean.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

Like just me, are you therefore saying that your brain interprets the stimuli and then determines whether it is an apple or not?

When I hold what appears to be an apple, (based on my experience), and contemplate it for more than a second or two, I find myself fascinated that this energy form, if I bite it and bring it into my energy form, will, turn into me.

Be careful not to bite any electrically-charged energy forms :).

This gets my vote for the worst OP in the history of the internet.

I invite you to not participate in this thread, if you so choose.

Was your Master's Thesis in philosophy on this subject? Maybe you can just direct us to a link of that thesis and we can start reading, while we wait for the big surprise. ;)

There is no surprise.