One thing to keep in mind from the SWG affair

[_Droopy]

When various LDS posters call this board a "trailerpark," a "cesspool" and other familiar insults, that's not always tongue in cheek, and even when it is, that's not always the effect on readers. When LDS posters constantly attack the integrity and motives of people here and, in some cases, just flat lie about what is happening, that is not without effect.

I think you can read some of the hate people have and their dismissive attitude towards this board, a board they almost never peruse, as in part a direct consequence of that. There are people who genuinely hate you for being here. That behavior is "cultish" and to be expected in all honesty, but it should be thought about when people repeat those insults and misrepresentations over and over and over. It is meant to poison the well so people's mind will shut down before even listening to what you have to say. When DCP called this place a den of iniquity and others implied that the m.o. of great many of the posters is libel, vile threats, cruelty and dishonesty, people believe that.

It's not Ok.

Perhaps its not, but its true, which means the only remaining consideration is telling the truth about this place in an appropriate manner, and I can't think of anything more appropriate than "den of iniquity," broadly speaking.

[Jersey Girl]

That name calling is just part of apologetics. Best not to take it personally.

[Extremely silly graphic omitted]

[_Droopy]

Well, when you get attacked like this:

She's another anonymous, cowardly little apostate who has no name or face attached to her online moniker, but who delights in slandering and calumniating the general authorities of the Church and other well known apologists, who do have names and faces.

What is Harmony's real name again, Cam? Do you not think it likely that one of the primary reasons she chooses to remain anonymous is what would transpire if her church friends and Bishop (who she has to see in a personal interview occasionally to renew her temple recommend) found out what she really thinks about the church and its teachings?

Would you not call this cowardly? Would you not call Scratch cowardly for hiding in a similar manner while dishing out defamation and character assassination as fast as he can fling his ladle?

[Jersey Girl]

What is Harmony's real name again, Cam? Do you not think it likely that one of the primary reasons she chooses to remain anonymous is what would transpire if her church friends and Bishop (who she has to see in a personal interview occasionally to renew her temple recommend) found out what she really thinks about the church and its teachings?

That fear of incurring an overly harsh and punitive reaction is not a good thing. In order to be a tolerant and prophetic people, we need some more work on the tolerance aspect.

[_Droopy]

That name calling is just part of apologetics. Best not to take it personally.

So long as dogpile posts and the internet stalking of singled out and targeted individuals within the apologetics community, such as Daniel Peterson or William Schryver continues as usual, there is, yes, going to be, here and there, some return fire of a similar nature. So long as the lion's share of internet criticism of the LDS church is, in point of fact, grounded to a disproportional degree in personal animosity and character smearing, You are going to get sent back to you some of your own medicine.

True, we apologists, as LDS and as Christians, are supposed to live at a higher standard of discourse, and not return railing accusation for railing accusation.

We are also only too human, and works in progress, so stop your not very compelling and not very ingenuous moral posturing Moksha.

[_beefcalf]

What is Harmony's real name again, Cam? Do you not think it likely that one of the primary reasons she chooses to remain anonymous is what would transpire if her church friends and Bishop (who she has to see in a personal interview occasionally to renew her temple recommend) found out what she really thinks about the church and its teachings?

Would you not call this cowardly? Would you not call Scratch cowardly for hiding in a similar manner while dishing out defamation and character assassination as fast as he can fling his ladle?

Droopy,

Perhaps her Bishop knows all about her on-line activities and views. Perhaps she remains anonymous to prevent you from finding her. Just sayin'...

[_Droopy]

That fear of incurring an overly harsh and punitive reaction is not a good thing. In order to be a tolerant and prophetic people, we need some more work on the tolerance aspect.

Why should the church tolerate thorough apostasy and virtually the complete withdraw of belief, conviction, and loyalty to the principles and doctrines of the church by its members, especially when this involves deception by such and invidual regarding their actual beliefs and feelings for the purpose of retaining a temple recommend?

The church is a private religious organization, and it decides who it wishes to associate with based upon the rules governing membership in that organization.

Its kind of a free agency thing, Moksha.

[_Droopy]

Droopy,

Perhaps her Bishop knows all about her on-line activities and views. Perhaps she remains anonymous to prevent you from finding her. Just sayin'...

Doubtful. The Bishop is tasked with making sure, to the best of his ability, that only worthy members of the Church are able to enter into and worship in the Temple. Temple worship is a privilege of church membership predicated upon the personal conduct of the member in honoring and living the required principles and covenants attendant to Temple worthiness.

There are only a few of the recommend questions that Harmony could answer truthfully. The rest, including the following, and based upon the substance and general tenor of countless of her posts I've read going back into the early part of the last decade, would seem to pose a serious problem:


Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?

Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?

Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?


I would not be sure about this one below, but given here general view of the Temple and its ordinances, and especially those pertaining to celestial marriage, I would infer a problem here also:


[i]If you have previously received your temple endowment: Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple? Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

[_beastie]

Perhaps its not, but its true, which means the only remaining consideration is telling the truth about this place in an appropriate manner, and I can't think of anything more appropriate than "den of iniquity," broadly speaking.

How odd that you spend so much time in a den of iniquity.

When I was LDS, leaders cautioned us to avoid such places. But I suppose times have changed.