Top 10 LDS 'Intellectuals' | Deseret News

[_Daniel Peterson]

You're a loon, Scratch.

In very many ways.

Don't be so coy, Daniel. I'm sure you can list them.

No, I couldn't possibly begin to list all of the things that I'm ignorant of. In fact, it's certain that I don't even know all of the things that I'm ignorant of.

And the same goes for you.

When the LDS Church suggests that JSJr was just an ignorant farm boy in 1820, what is the LDS Church suggesting he was ignorant of?

History, cultures, languages, standard English grammar, the sciences, art and literature, etc., etc. That seems to me demonstrably true, and quite uncontroversial.

There is absolutely no contradiction between being extremely bright (which I think Joseph Smith was) and being unlearned (which especially the young Joseph Smith was). In fact, sadly, I suppose that ignorant-though-brilliant people are much more common, even in the twenty-first century, than are well-educated-and-brilliant people. It's a virtual certainty, and a tragedy, that there are untapped geniuses not only in rural Africa and on the Bolivian Altiplano but even in the developed countries.

[_The Dude]

At least they put "Intellectuals" in scare quotes. I have no problem with such a list.

[_Doctor Scratch]

At least they put "Intellectuals" in scare quotes. I have no problem with such a list.

I don't have a problem with it either. It's got explanatory value, you know? Next time we're at church and we hear a Chapel Mormon say, "How could Joseph have written the Book of Mormon? He was just an ignorant farm boy!" we can calmly reply, "It was because he was an intellectual giant. He was rated the 3rd most important LDS 'intellectual' by the Deseret News."

[_sock puppet]

No, I couldn't possibly begin to list all of the things that I'm ignorant of. In fact, it's certain that I don't even know all of the things that I'm ignorant of.

And the same goes for you.

When the LDS Church suggests that JSJr was just an ignorant farm boy in 1820, what is the LDS Church suggesting he was ignorant of?

History, cultures, languages, standard English grammar, the sciences, art and literature, etc., etc. That seems to me demonstrably true, and quite uncontroversial.

There is absolutely no contradiction between being extremely bright (which I think Joseph Smith was) and being unlearned (which especially the young Joseph Smith was). In fact, sadly, I suppose that ignorant-though-brilliant people are much more common, even in the twenty-first century, than are well-educated-and-brilliant people. It's a virtual certainty, and a tragedy, that there are untapped geniuses not only in rural Africa and on the Bolivian Altiplano but even in the developed countries.

Funny, you ventured to begin a list of JSJr's ignorances but not your own.

[_TrashcanMan79]

Kinda complicates the "ignorant farmboy" angle, 'twould seem.

It always shakes my head in wonderment about peoples intellectual skills and common sense..... all the while thinking they are intelligent and actually saying something "smart".

Joseph Smith "Growing up" a basically ignorant farm boy is not the same as LATER ON becoming a great intellectual thinker. Hello..... McFly.....

Anyone that has actually read most early LDS history, especially Joseph's own words, in contrast to anti-mormon drive-by media know very well that he was very intelligent, wise, and good, and that this was developed through study and faith, not growing up with it, save almost entirely with the scriptures alone.

I don't disagree with this, but I'm thinking my "'ignorant farmboy' angle" didn't convey what I thought it would. What I had in mind has more to do with the inferences some Mormons (and here I am thinking of my own family and ward members -- not an apologist or Internet Mormon to be found among them; surely you know some like these) will draw from the fact that Smith lacked a proper education (eg, Smith lacked the smarts, intelligence, creativity, imagination, originality, whatever to ever produce the scriptures and doctrines he did without divine guidance -- why, he was just an ignernt farm boy!). Seeing Smith listed alongside what are arguably legitimate 'intellectuals', should, I would hope, give pause to anyone who finds their faith strengthened in believing Smith was not an intelligent man.

[_Joseph]

Given the fact many of my farming neighbors haveBS and BA degrees, Masters Degrees and two have PhD's, 'ignorant farmboy' is Joseph Smith, not farm boys in general. The thirst for education among those in many farming communities is there as farming is much more technical now than ever before.

l-dsinc tries to play it both ways and spins it big time depending on who is pushing the latest propaganda.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Funny, you ventured to begin a list of JSJr's ignorances but not your own.

Well, since the topic seems to fascinate you so, here are ten (10) areas of my ignorance, chosen at random:

Tensor analysis, Tibetan history, the paleobotany of the Australian Outback, Venezuelan cooking, Hindustani, Kansas politics, South Carolina poets, nuclear chemistry, Swiss tax law, and the entomology of southwestern Iceland.

There are tens of thousands of similar blank spots in my knowledge.

[_Droopy]

We've got example after example of Packer going after various LDS intellectuals,

Elder Packer has never "gone after" LDS intellectuals, save from a particular hostile ex-LDS, dare I say it, apostate perspective. All he has ever done is set intellectuality in its proper relation to the gospel and spiritual things, which, I would posit, is a relation that is at one and the same time in harmony with it while also being subordinate to it.

That's all.

[_harmony]

Perhaps it would be most helpful to figure out what an intellectual is, and then decide who on that list qualifies.

[_Blixa]

It always shakes my head in wonderment about peoples intellectual skills and common sense..... all the while thinking they are intelligent and actually saying something "smart".

Joseph Smith "Growing up" a basically ignorant farm boy is not the same as LATER ON becoming a great intellectual thinker. Hello..... McFly.....

Anyone that has actually read most early LDS history, especially Joseph's own words, in contrast to anti-mormon drive-by media know very well that he was very intelligent, wise, and good, and that this was developed through study and faith, not growing up with it, save almost entirely with the scriptures alone.

Obiwan, please take some time and read the study, “Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties of Recognizing One’s Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-assessments," by Justin Kruger and David Dunning, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 1999, vol. 77, no. 6, pp. 1121-1134.

If you don't have access to a journal retrieval source, you can find a good layman's discussion of the condition in Errol Morris's series for the New York Times, "The Anosognosic’s Dilemma: Something’s Wrong but You’ll Never Know What It Is." Morris uses the term "anosognosia," a condition in which a person who suffers from a disability seems unaware of or denies the existence of his or her disability, as a way of talking about what is now commonly referred to as "Dunning-Kruger Effect." As Dunning explains it to Morris, "if you’re incompetent, you can’t know you’re incompetent." In other words, people who are very ignorant often have an inflated sense of their intellectual skills because they lack the ability to understand their own ignorance.

Your post is a near text-book example of this condition. You complain about other people lacking intellectual skills, but do so in a barrage of nearly incomprehensible illiteracy. For example,

It always shakes my head in wonderment about peoples intellectual skills and common sense..... all the while thinking they are intelligent and actually saying something "smart".

The writer of such a sentence has made clear that they completely lack the very thing they are so sure they possess and others do not. I'm not just talking about common spelling mistakes or typos. I'm talking about phrases like, "It always shakes my head..."

Take some time to read and learn, Obiwan.