The Living Community: Core Principles

[_Droopy]

1. We have faith in the power, creativity and ability of human beings to work together democratically for the common good.

1. There is some degree of historical and anthropological reason, both from the past and in the present, to support the idea that "human beings to work together democratically." There are also abundant facts and evidence that this state of affairs is, from a historical perspective, precarious, fragile, and difficult to sustain internally. Upon what grounds do you believe your particular community will be more successful, or viable, than other forms of democratically oriented social orders.

2. When you say "democratic," are you looking at a kind of unmediated, direct democracy, or a representative, republican form of government?

3. Define the "common good."

[_Droopy]

2. We acknowledge that reason, empirical evidence and the scientific method are the most effective tools for discovering knowledge, ethics and moral behavior.

Upon what basis do you make this assertion?

We embrace all truth and commit to updating any conclusions as better information becomes available.

Human reason, empirical evidence, and the scientific method then are modes of thought and perception capable of apprehending all truth in the universe? Is this what you are claiming here?

There is no state of affairs in the cosmos, within the context of any subject, question, or ontological category, in other words, that is not open to discovery and understanding through the above methods?

[_harmony]

You really see no difference between this and any organization that meets at regular time intervals? How obtuse.

Well. Obviously not a community I'd be welcome in.

Good to know.

[_LDSToronto]

Your point is true. That is why all of our work (and I have 3 lawyers involved) at this point is around setting up a legal structure to keep the organization democratic and avoid such problems. This isn't my first first non profit, nor business. Sometimes some of those thing you learn in graduate school come in handy.

Okay... but why do you need a community?

John (and I think John Dehlin has a similar idea) are offering a place to those who have lost their community when they've left a religion. I think it's a nice idea. This has been my biggest barrier to leaving the LDS church - if I do leave, I leave my community behind, or, rather, they will leave me. My wife has struggled with the same thing, and didn't feel comfortable in her choices until she made the brave move to reveal her doubts to some who she suspected were doubting, and now she is building a "community" of her own that will replace the one that she has.

I can't imagine why anyone, whether actively religious or not, would oppose John's attempts to create a community for those who feel left behind.

H.

[_why me]

The name. It sounds creepy and new age cultish. But like I said on page one of this thread, the organization will fail as more people join and have power clashes and envy. Unless of course, it does become a cult with john and his wife as cult leaders demanding absolute loyality to the leaders. But the name sounds cultish and compoundish.

Your point is true. That is why all of our work (and I have 3 lawyers involved) at this point is around setting up a legal structure to keep the organization democratic and avoid such problems. This isn't my first first non profit, nor business. Sometimes some of those thing you learn in graduate school come in handy.

I think that you will discover the fundalmental problems Joseph Smith had. People who were once on board, leaving over personaliy clashes and disappointment. Also, you will need a mechanism of expellsion: people who no longer follow the rules and beliefs and yet, organize around their own interpretation of the rules. It will not be easy.

[_Themis]

I think that you will discover the fundalmental problems Joseph Smith had. People who were once on board, leaving over personaliy clashes and disappointment. Also, you will need a mechanism of expellsion: people who no longer follow the rules and beliefs and yet, organize around their own interpretation of the rules. It will not be easy.

They are not trying to create a religion, but an open community. I doubt anyone will have to worry about religious leaders like Joseph Smith verbally trying to attack and destroy them if they decide to leave.

[_John Larsen]

You really see no difference between this and any organization that meets at regular time intervals? How obtuse.

Well. Obviously not a community I'd be welcome in.

Good to know.

It seems you want to be offended. You come in with a passive aggressive attack on a rather benign idea and then run squealing in offense at the first resistance. I am certain you would be welcome, but you would probably find yourself offended at every turn.

[_harmony]

It seems you want to be offended. You come in with a passive aggressive attack on a rather benign idea and then run squealing in offense at the first resistance. I am certain you would be welcome, but you would probably find yourself offended at every turn.

I asked for further explanation. You essentially called me a fool (obtuse, If I recall correctly), and you're sound pretty sure I'd go out of my way to be offended. That's supposed to make anyone feel welcome?

Are you sure you aren't Mormon?

[_Nightlion]

It seems you want to be offended. You come in with a passive aggressive attack on a rather benign idea and then run squealing in offense at the first resistance. I am certain you would be welcome, but you would probably find yourself offended at every turn.

I got an idea for an early morning get together for your community. Seeing how it is June and the Summer Solstice light illuminates The Apocalrock with this:
http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu325/Nightlion_2009/apocalrock-banner-1.jpg
All you need to to is gather at the Eastwood Elementary School playground in front of The Apocalrock at the furthest East on 3300 South in Salt Lake County at sunrise and have a DENY-IN

I could be on hand to point out what everyone need to deny seeing.

For a traced outline of what you should deny or explanation of the image go to page 21 of this:http://www.fireark.org/The%20Sample%20Text.pdf

This is a once a year option. It is almost impossible to see this, thankfully, most of the time. Only just before and after the Summer Solstice.

[_Simon Belmont]

I've got to be honest with you, Larsen, and I mean no offense personally: this sounds like a juvenile idea. "We're mad at Mormonism so we're going to make our own community!"