Do you know how to recognize secret combinations? They have secret handshakes and passwords. My community doesn't have any of those. Does your church?
Clearly you don't have a very good grasp of the concept "secret combination" as understood in LDS doctrine and scripture.
I think that perhaps you may be confusing certain historical "secret societies" with secret combinations, or individuals, organizations, groups, political entities etc. who combine against righteousness and to fight against Christ (as elucidated in the Book of Mormon) in one manner or another, and who do so furtively so as to mask the core of their true intentions and vision. Secret societies of various sorts could, of course, be a part of such "combinations," but they are neither sufficient conditions of or required by the concept.
As the Church is clearly not a secret society, and especially not one seeking political power or mass social change through political/collective societal action, your implied analogy is irrelevant.
The LDS temple endowment, patterned after Masonic rites, is a great example of secret combinations. The talk of secret combinations in the Book of Mormon is in reference to the Masons, who were cultural bogeymen at the time the Book of Mormon was being written.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
Buffalo wrote:The LDS temple endowment, patterned after Masonic rites, is a great example of secret combinations. The talk of secret combinations in the Book of Mormon is in reference to the Masons, who were cultural bogeymen at the time the Book of Mormon was being written.
While you are sort of right Buffalo, you are also sort of wrong. The Book of Mormon actually discusses two Masonic organizations, not one, and the secret combination refers only to one of the two organizations. To say that the Book of Mormon uses "secret combinations in reference to the Masons is misleading.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Buffalo wrote:The LDS temple endowment, patterned after Masonic rites, is a great example of secret combinations. The talk of secret combinations in the Book of Mormon is in reference to the Masons, who were cultural bogeymen at the time the Book of Mormon was being written.
While you are sort of right Buffalo, you are also sort of wrong. The Book of Mormon actually discusses two Masonic organizations, not one, and the secret combination refers only to one of the two organizations. To say that the Book of Mormon "secret combinations in reference to the Masons is misleading.
Which two masonic organizations?
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
I personally wanted to say that I think what Larson is doing is fabulous. There has been a large amount of chatter in secular humanists communities that many of the community supports, so vital to a person, are today commonly provided by ecclesiastical organizations. To its credit, the LDS church does a good job at providing this type of community. When leaving religion, many feel that their community has abandoned them, and replacing that community structure is difficult. As a result some secular humanists organizations have tried to create their own community structure. Many of these communities also try to perpetuate the ideals of secular humanism. John is trying to create something different, and for this he should be applauded. He is trying to create a community, not one that denounces religion or whose goal is to promote the secular humanist agenda, but instead is designed with the goal of community itself. I pray that John will find enough like minded people to succeed, as there is likely a need for this in the Utah Valley.
Sorry, Buffalo, I do not want to jinx your inquiry but I want to hear about masons in the Book of Mormon. Certainly never mentioned by name. I want to know what George is talking about and how he gets a separation in secret bands of iniquity vs not-so-bad and even masons for that matter.
Nightlion wrote:Sorry, Buffalo, I do not want to jinx your inquiry but I want to hear about masons in the Book of Mormon. Certainly never mentioned by name. I want to know what George is talking about and how he gets a separation in secret bands of iniquity vs not-so-bad and even masons for that matter.
Stare into the Apocalrock long enough and perhaps you too will see the Masonic secrets. Besides, I don't want to thread jack this FABULOUS discussion of the Living Community. John what is the next step in organization, and how is the group going to be funded. Have you considered a trust or endowment from which the group will operate? While this would be more long term, perhaps encouraging members to place the Living Community into their wills at a certain percentage would be helpful.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I fully support Secular Humanism... And I really do like all the values that Larson is promoting in his group.
I can also understand why he is averse to having a paid leader...
I wonder about the longevity and cohesion of having a group formed like that without anyone operating in a full-time and paid capacity to plan and sustain group activities...
I wish him the best--and may even show up at a group meeting, sometime (given that I'm a Utah County resident, myself!)
Daniel2
"Have compassion for everyone you meet even if they don't want it. What seems conceit, bad manners, or cynicism is always a sign of things no ears have heard, no eyes have seen. You do not know what wars are going on down there where the spirit meets the bone."--Miller Williams
George Miller wrote:I personally wanted to say that I think what Larson is doing is fabulous. There has been a large amount of chatter in secular humanists communities that many of the community supports, so vital to a person, are today commonly provided by ecclesiastical organizations. To its credit, the LDS church does a good job at providing this type of community. When leaving religion, many feel that their community has abandoned them, and replacing that community structure is difficult. As a result some secular humanists organizations have tried to create their own community structure. Many of these communities also try to perpetuate the ideals of secular humanism. John is trying to create something different, and for this he should be applauded. He is trying to create a community, not one that denounces religion or whose goal is to promote the secular humanist agenda, but instead is designed with the goal of community itself. I pray that John will find enough like minded people to succeed, as there is likely a need for this in the Utah Valley.
Thanks for this commentary, George. I'm not living in Utah or I'd at least check out what John and others are organizing. There are many fine social functions that religions fulfill (I remember how well the pre-correlation Mormon church of my youth was at creating a sense of neighborhood community even among inactive or non-mormons) and I think John's ideas along these lines are quite interesting as well as different from other contemporary organizations. I know others here can't see that difference, some have asked about it with sincere curiosity, some out of rude disdain, but familiarity with the materials John's organization has already assembled would answer some of the more juvenile questions. I also think more than a passing familiarity with the work John has done with "Mormon Expressions" would puncture any idea that the effort is merely a childish retaliation against Mormonism.
I should stop calling it "John's organization," too, since I know he does not aspire to a charismatic leadership position.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."