The Living Community: Core Principles

[_Nightlion]

Sorry, Buffalo, I do not want to jinx your inquiry but I want to hear about masons in the Book of Mormon. Certainly never mentioned by name. I want to know what George is talking about and how he gets a separation in secret bands of iniquity vs not-so-bad and even masons for that matter.

Stare into the Apocalrock long enough and perhaps you too will see the Masonic secrets. Besides, I don't want to thread jack this FABULOUS discussion of the Living Community. John what is the next step in organization, and how is the group going to be funded. Have you considered a trust or endowment from which the group will operate? While this would be more long term, perhaps encouraging members to place the Living Community into their wills at a certain percentage would be helpful.

How very aplomb of you. Ahem. Yes, well, you already did so finish it already. Not likely to be of enough heft to actually thread jack anyway is my bet.

[_John Larsen]

It seems you want to be offended. You come in with a passive aggressive attack on a rather benign idea and then run squealing in offense at the first resistance. I am certain you would be welcome, but you would probably find yourself offended at every turn.

I asked for further explanation. You essentially called me a fool (obtuse, If I recall correctly), and you're sound pretty sure I'd go out of my way to be offended. That's supposed to make anyone feel welcome?

Are you sure you aren't Mormon?

I am sorry, Harmony. My response was overly defensive and harsh. Re-reading my post seemed to be over the top in response to you query.

This is why I don't post on the boards as much these days.

[_harmony]

I asked for further explanation. You essentially called me a fool (obtuse, If I recall correctly), and you're sound pretty sure I'd go out of my way to be offended. That's supposed to make anyone feel welcome?

Are you sure you aren't Mormon?

I am sorry, Harmony. My response was overly defensive and harsh. Re-reading my post seemed to be over the top in response to you query.

This is why I don't post on the boards as much these days.

Not your fault. I'm just confused. I'm a convert to the church. I remember what life was like prior to joining. I was a member of a community: I was in the 4-H club, had friends in the neighborhood that we as a family did stuff together... BBQ's, rotating dinner parties, card parties, that sort of thing... I had friends at school, I even taught DVS for my church in the summers (although that's about all I did with church people because none of my school friends were in that church). So I guess my family figured out how to be a member of a community without having to create bylaws. I was just confused that not everyone feels that sense of community that I grew up with, that had nothing to do with church controlling every aspect of community.

I wasn't BIC, so I probably don't have any idea what it's like to leave the controlled community environment. Momma created our family's community. Maybe it was because I come from a long line of farming folk that has always created that sense of community, and I just didn't understand that not everyone has that sense of belonging.

My apologies for being a tad slow to figure it out.

[_why me]

That's true. Joseph Smith based his organization on manipulation and control and other cultish behavior.

Nonsense. Joseph built his organization on visions. First vision, moroni visions, priesthood vision etc. Without those visions the LDS church would have failed a long time ago. And to have others confirm those visions, did not hurt matters either.

[_why me]

I am sorry, Harmony. My response was overly defensive and harsh. Re-reading my post seemed to be over the top in response to you query.

This is why I don't post on the boards as much these days.

My point exactly. You can not keep your own personality out of the organization. You will cause offense, hurt others etc. as will others. And there will be disagreements between individuals that will cause rifs etc.

This was no different than Joseph's time when close friends and supporters left him and became anti.

[_why me]

Oh, the name? I thought you had something substantive to say. Silly me.

All communities are living: even the ant community. But the name can have cultish connotations. For example the question: what community do you belong to? Oh, I belong to the living community. We believe in equality for everyone and seek to form a good, wholesome community of individuals in various areas of the US. We gather together to share our experiences. Our president is John Larsen and his wife. Very nice people. etc.

How does it sound to you?

[_jon]

My point exactly. You can not keep your own personality out of the organization. You will cause offense, hurt others etc. as will others. And there will be disagreements between individuals that will cause rifs etc.

This was no different than Joseph's time when close friends and supporters left him and became anti.

Wasn't that because he was boinking their wives and daughters and trying to get them to hand over their cash?

[_John Larsen]

I am sorry, Harmony. My response was overly defensive and harsh. Re-reading my post seemed to be over the top in response to you query.

This is why I don't post on the boards as much these days.

Not your fault. I'm just confused. I'm a convert to the church. I remember what life was like prior to joining. I was a member of a community: I was in the 4-H club, had friends in the neighborhood that we as a family did stuff together... BBQ's, rotating dinner parties, card parties, that sort of thing... I had friends at school, I even taught DVS for my church in the summers (although that's about all I did with church people because none of my school friends were in that church). So I guess my family figured out how to be a member of a community without having to create bylaws. I was just confused that not everyone feels that sense of community that I grew up with, that had nothing to do with church controlling every aspect of community.

I wasn't BIC, so I probably don't have any idea what it's like to leave the controlled community environment. Momma created our family's community. Maybe it was because I come from a long line of farming folk that has always created that sense of community, and I just didn't understand that not everyone has that sense of belonging.

My apologies for being a tad slow to figure it out.

You have to understand that in Utah especially, because of the Church, this is all squished. I have several non-Mormon friends in the state and they all complain about the same thing, neighbors just ignore them when they learn they are not interested in converting. Even non-Mormon community groups like the 4-H and the Boy Scouts can be so utterly dominated by Mormons that they will openly discuss Mormon practice.

What we lack, more than anything, is space. In Utah groups like the Lions or the Rotary Club are few and far between. And from what I read, these organizations are dying out all over the country. People are retreating into their own internet inspired echo chambers. This abandons especially the margins, like teenagers.

The by-laws serve two functions. 1. To prevent the group being subverted by a religious leader type. 2. They are necessary to legally incorporate which will allow us to a. become taxed exempt, b. hold property collectively.

[_John Larsen]

I am sorry, Harmony. My response was overly defensive and harsh. Re-reading my post seemed to be over the top in response to you query.

This is why I don't post on the boards as much these days.

My point exactly. You can not keep your own personality out of the organization. You will cause offense, hurt others etc. as will others. And there will be disagreements between individuals that will cause rifs etc.

This was no different than Joseph's time when close friends and supporters left him and became anti.

The point is not to avoid conflict, the point is to try to work through it. I claim no divine revelation. I am a flawed human being that makes mistakes. This is why the community is democratic, to overcome the charismatic force of the one or two.

If you are looking for a community that won't sometimes offend you and will always agree with you in every way, you are going to be sadly disappointed.

Once again, this is why we are focused on by-laws. It is not worthwhile to try to avoid conflict, it is important to understand how to resolve conflict. Those who are working to craft the organization and I clash on some key points, but I think the dialog and discussion has made for something much better than what we started with.
You also have to understand that we are not creating this with everyone in mind. Our goal is not to convert the word. Some people don't want or require such a community. We say, go in peace. We offer no salvation. If the community does not in some way enrich your life and make it worth the effort, then keep looking for something that does.

[_Buffalo]

Oh, the name? I thought you had something substantive to say. Silly me.

All communities are living: even the ant community. But the name can have cultish connotations. For example the question: what community do you belong to? Oh, I belong to the living community. We believe in equality for everyone and seek to form a good, wholesome community of individuals in various areas of the US. We gather together to share our experiences. Our president is John Larsen and his wife. Very nice people. etc.

How does it sound to you?

It sounds like a nice liberal Christian group - or at least you'd assume the Christian part because atheists don't generally form communities. Cults don't espouse those sorts of principles.