The world is so "evil" these days.

[_Morley]

We have (for the most part) rid the world of slavery, an institution that had existed since ancient times. Unlike the 'not-so-evil' times of Joseph Smith, Moses, and Jesus.

Slavery has merely been reinvented as worker/owner employment. Go ahead and quit. Be free. Uh huh? We are more oppressed by the maintenance of our stuff than any slave. Think about it. And this will be getting worse and worse, you shall see it.

No disrespect intended, Nightlion--but, while there may be problems with worker/owner inequality (as well as with 'the maintenance of our stuff,' this argument minimizes the stark horror of slavery. Please rethink.

[_Quasimodo]

Slavery has merely been reinvented as worker/owner employment. Go ahead and quit. Be free. Uh huh? We are more oppressed by the maintenance of our stuff than any slave. Think about it. And this will be getting worse and worse, you shall see it.

I understand what you're trying to say, Night, but slavery had some particular nastiness that no longer exists (at least I hope it doesn't).

The legal sexual abuse of female slaves by their owners. The permanent separation of slave families by selling members "down the river" (husbands, wives and children). Slave breeding farms. The torture and murder of slaves going unpunished because slaves were considered property and not human.

Slavery to possessions is probably a bad thing, but not close to the actual institution of slavery.

[_Nightlion]

LOL. Man howdy. We drive cars. Spend all day earning the money for stuff. We live in the exoskeletons of steel insulated from one another. We relate in the surreal of internet, TV, Movies, with shocking shallowness. If you never experienced rural life where every man knew his neighbor and all the village pulled together and rejoiced together and worked together you hardly have a clue what humanity is suppose to be about.

We walk down busy sidewalks shrouded in a plastic cage of anxious indifference and cold-heartedness. Religion is a farce of feigned community for the most part. It is almost as if we all remain in our homes and send out a clone of ourselves to relate because our minds an held in virtual reality.

Then we can talk about the real evil. Come on. Better informed and more socially and politically liberal. This is righteousness of the BORG.

Better when we lived in caves and men dragged women around by their hair.

Ungahunga dude!

Thinking scientific gain is godliness, are we?

[_Nightlion]

Slavery has merely been reinvented as worker/owner employment. Go ahead and quit. Be free. Uh huh? We are more oppressed by the maintenance of our stuff than any slave. Think about it. And this will be getting worse and worse, you shall see it.

I understand what you're trying to say, Night, but slavery had some particular nastiness that no longer exists (at least I hope it doesn't).

The legal sexual abuse of female slaves by their owners. The permanent separation of slave families by selling members "down the river" (husbands, wives and children). Slave breeding farms. The torture and murder of slaves going unpunished because slaves were considered property and not human.

Slavery to possessions is probably a bad thing, but not close to the actual institution of slavery.

I think we are seriously not short on cruelty these days. Our economics break up families far worse. People are forced to be homeless. Prisons are filled to overflowing because of desperate means. Not scratching the surface.

And the bottom line is that to get real salvation and find the meekness that opens the door, our day is filled and packed down tight against it. At least in olden days all you had to do is wander out in the wood to coalesce your soul. These days you got to shake off material oppressiveness that has fully captured our souls and will NOT let us go quietly into the still woods alone.

In our minds are cataloged a billion tunes, moveis, TV shows, commercials, bullboard, that tag along having been riveted to our subconsciousness. We no more can be alone. Not from our age. This is our spiritual bondage to an unacknowledged monster who fools us into thinking him our liberator.

[_Baker]

Nightlion - you seriously think things were better 100 years ago? 200 years ago? Study much history?!?

Geez ...

[_The Nehor]

We have more readily available knowledge and technology then ever before.

We have more power to do good and evil then ever before.

As humanity has always done we do a bit of both making some things better and others worse.

We are kinder to children but less kind to the elderly.

We don't let people starve but we care little for the dignity of the poor.

We abhor violence ourselves but are willing to wage offensive wars on others in the name of 'safety'.

Our society creates art of beauty and also for some reason allowed "The Room" to be a huge success.

We are concerned that people have a roof over their heads but people are growing more isolated.

We exalt the virtues of tolerance and justice but despise the virtues of honor and chastity.

[_The Nehor]

Better when we lived in caves and men dragged women around by their hair.

Uhhhh, you do know that the dragging women around by the hair thing is something Hollywood invented right?

[_Tchild]

So is the world more evil now or is it the same it has ever been or is it better?

How can you argue with (or even relate to) a group of people who believe that drinking coffee or alcohol is some sort of "sin" that could affect your station in heaven for all eternity? How do you argue with repressed puritannical sexual hang-ups that creates horrible guilt, feelings of shame and loss of self-worth for the very normal and natural act of masturbation. Or worse, that would rather see a son or daughter in a pine box before and losing their virginity?

You can't. You just have to accept that such people are wholly imbalanced and unhealthy in mind, body and spirit.

I have realized that the further I get from the Mormon mindset, the more beautiful the world really is. Leaving Mormonism for me has been like finding a new wonderful world. I wouldn't go back to the mental hell hole of Mormonism for anything on this earth. Good riddance!

[_Baker]

Better when we lived in caves and men dragged women around by their hair.

Uhhhh, you do know that the dragging women around by the hair thing is something Hollywood invented right?

Haha, just making a point.

To add to your list:

We now have significantly improved medical capabilities that enable us to stave off plagues - and that could have saved millions in the past.

Our infrastructure has improved to the point where the greatest miracle following natural disasters is the relatively few people who perish (compared to the past).

[_The Nehor]

So is the world more evil now or is it the same it has ever been or is it better?

How can you argue with (or even relate to) a group of people who believe that drinking coffee or alcohol is some sort of "sin" that could affect your station in heaven for all eternity?[/quote]

The sin is the disobedience, not the act in this case. The saints of God seem to have drank wine in every other dispensation. I see nothing sinful about it.

How do you argue with repressed puritannical sexual hang-ups that creates horrible guilt, feelings of shame and loss of self-worth for the very normal and natural act of masturbation.

It does what now?

Or worse, that would rather see a son or daughter in a pine box before and losing their virginity?

I can't follow here. If you are suggesting that you can't argue with those that want their children in a pine box before they lose their virginity then I suggest you call these people out as the necrophiliacs they are.

You can't. You just have to accept that such people are wholly imbalanced and unhealthy in mind, body and spirit.

Then why are you here? Your argument is discussion is impossible yet you discuss.....why?

I have realized that the further I get from the Mormon mindset, the more beautiful the world really is. Leaving Mormonism for me has been like finding a new wonderful world. I wouldn't go back to the mental hell hole of Mormonism for anything on this earth. Good riddance!

Bye.