My Experience With Daniel Peterson

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_Yoda

Re: My Experience With Daniel Peterson

Post by _Yoda »

Dan wrote:Given his complacent assertions that I'm "incapable of understanding . . . the difference between possibility and probability," that I "lack [the ability] to think logically," and etc., I wonder if it isn't just a tad embarrassing to DrW that he's so obviously failed to grasp the point of the two sentences that he quotes from me. That point is quite straightforward, and, I think, not very controversial.


Agreed.
_DrW
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Re: My Experience With Daniel Peterson

Post by _DrW »

Daniel Peterson wrote:
DrW wrote:Those who would like an example of what I am talking about in general here need only read the DCP quote in my signature line. He actually wrote this. I kid you not.

(Here it is, for the convenience of MDB readers: "I cheerfully admit, and routinely say, that Mormonism has not proven its claims. I don't think it's supposed to do so, either, and, accordingly, I reject your claim that it has failed to do so.")

Given his complacent assertions that I'm "incapable of understanding . . . the difference between possibility and probability," that I "lack [the ability] to think logically," and etc., I wonder if it isn't just a tad embarrassing to DrW that he's so obviously failed to grasp the point of the two sentences that he quotes from me. That point is quite straightforward, and, I think, not very controversial.

Dr. Peterson,

In the same statement, you admit that Mormonism has not proven its truth claims, and then reject the assertion that it has failed to prove its truth claims. Think about it.

With all due respect, just as the average Mormon would probably see nothing ironic in the quote in my post above from the Church member regarding the "Book of Mormon" musical, you apparently do not appreciate the internal contradiction in your statement. If you really can't see the problem, try reading your quote aloud or ask any non-Mormon colleague to help you out.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_DrW
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Re: My Experience With Daniel Peterson

Post by _DrW »

liz3564 wrote:
Dan wrote:Given his complacent assertions that I'm "incapable of understanding . . . the difference between possibility and probability," that I "lack [the ability] to think logically," and etc., I wonder if it isn't just a tad embarrassing to DrW that he's so obviously failed to grasp the point of the two sentences that he quotes from me. That point is quite straightforward, and, I think, not very controversial.


Agreed.

Please read my post immediately above. (The quote in question is in my signature line.) Do you see the problem now?
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: My Experience With Daniel Peterson

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

DrW wrote:In the same statement, you admit that Mormonism has not proven their [sic] claims, and then reject the assertion that it has failed to prove its claims. Think about it.

I did. Now you do so.

It isn't reasonable use of the language to speak of someone's "failure" to do something that she had no intention of doing, wasn't attempting, and/or didn't think could be done.

It would be silly to announce that I've "failed" to achieve checkmate for fully the past twenty four hours. I haven't been playing chess.

It would be fatuous to reveal that Abraham Lincoln "failed" to sign the Declaration of Independence. It wasn't possible for him to have done so, and, presumably, he never made the attempt.

My Ford hasn't "failed" to become a Chevrolet. My tortoise hasn't "failed" to become a cheetah. My house hasn't "failed" to turn into a sailing yacht. My computer hasn't "failed" to transform itself into an Elizabethan sonnet. Kant didn't "fail" to turn his metaphysical theories into organic chemistry.

DrW wrote:With all due respect, just as the average Mormon would probably see nothing ironic in the quote in my post above from the Church member regarding the "Book of Mormon" musical, you apparently do not appreciate the internal contradiction in your statement. If you still can't see the problem, try reading your quote aloud or ask any non-Mormon colleague to help you out.

There is no contradiction.

Here are two formally analogous statements, with the terms changed so as, if at all possible, to help you to grasp the point, and with a suitable prologue sentence added, comparable to the one that sparked my initial comment, in order to make the context clear:

X. "Joe Montana failed to hit a single home run over his entire professional career."
Y. "I cheerfully admit, and routinely say, that Joe Montana never hit a home run in a professional game. He wasn't supposed to do so, either, and, accordingly, I reject your claim that he failed to do so."

X. "Professor Langweil failed to prove beyond any possible doubt or challenge that King Lear is a better play than Othello."
Y. "I cheerfully admit, and routinely say, that Professor Langweil never proved King Lear a better play than Othello in a manner that would forever silence any possible dissenters. That's not the way literary criticism works -- it's not Euclidian geometry, after all -- and he never so much as hinted that he was attempting such a "proof." Accordingly, I reject your claim that he failed to provide irrefutable and irresistible demonstration that King Lear is better than Othello."

Philosophical or metaphysical claims, claims about the moral purpose of the universe or the lack thereof, claims about the truth or falsity of theism, and the like, can be argued for and against, made more or less plausible, etc., but there are very few who believe that they can be decisively proven or disproven, let alone that they already have been proven or disproven, in such a way as to silence all dissent.

Your smug assumption of superiority ("ask any non-Mormon colleague to help you out") is laughably unfounded. You failed to understand the statement.
_rich kelsey
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Re: My Experience With Daniel Peterson

Post by _rich kelsey »

Daniel Peterson wrote:...Philosophical or metaphysical claims, claims about the moral purpose of the universe or the lack thereof, claims about the truth or falsity of theism, and the like, can be argued for and against, made more or less plausible, etc., but there are very few who believe that they can be decisively proven or disproven, let alone that they already have been proven or disproven, in such a way as to silence all dissent...

Hi Daniel,

You might enjoy a page from my site about Book of Mormon Archeological Photos:

http://richkelsey.org/book_of_mormon_ar ... al_fil.htm

I took the picture so we do not need to worry about who owns the rights.

“These silver castings are the most stunning ‘find’ in the history of America.” (Rich Kelsey)
_Bond James Bond
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Re: My Experience With Daniel Peterson

Post by _Bond James Bond »

Dr. Peterson was very nice and patient in responding to a question about Islam a couple years ago. I had previously said some pretty hateful things to him (which I apologized for in private), but we parted on what seemed good terms a couple years ago. Since then I haven't talked to him since I've been busy and away from the boards.

-My experience
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

MASH quotes
I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it.
I avoid church religiously.
This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.
_Joey
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Re: My Experience With Daniel Peterson

Post by _Joey »

Peterson wrote:Joey!!!!!! Could you locate and share my most recent announcement of my retirement from this board????!!!!?????!!!!!! By definition, it was posted within the past six months!!!!!!! In fact, could you post the one before that, as well???!!!!!????!!!!!! It will, apparently, have been posted on the board absolutely no more than a year ago!!!!!!!!

Absolutely! Just as soon as you come
Come clean with those who have been retained for smuggling ancient Book of Mormon!!

Difference is, you know ,I can back my assertions. As with you - well most know the answer !!!!!
"It's not so much that FARMS scholarship in the area Book of Mormon historicity is "rejected' by the secular academic community as it is they are "ignored". [Daniel Peterson, May, 2004]
_RockSlider
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Re: My Experience With Daniel Peterson

Post by _RockSlider »

Daniel Peterson wrote:But do you think this a fair characterization of the way I treated you: "a torrent of unkindness and sadistic mockery"


I poked at you enough that one day you lost all control and called me backslider.
Even though I'd poked at you, off and on for a very long time, your total loss of control was understandable, ummm, I mean totally called for … oh wait what I mean was an example of the torrent of unkindness and sadistic mockery of which we have all been warned of!

What a monster.
_RockSlider
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Re: My Experience With Daniel Peterson

Post by _RockSlider »

Ok Dan, if you want the truth here … what is truly a torrent of unkindness and sadistic mockery is when you give your list of important places you have to go, and important people to see. It is torture, a truly cruel and unusual punishment. Worse yet, I know you do it just for the pain it inflicts. Oh the comforting sleep it must bring on for you, knowing that it has left us squirming and suffering, like pouring salt on worms.

A truly sick man … what a monster.
_Bond James Bond
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Re: My Experience With Daniel Peterson

Post by _Bond James Bond »

cinepro wrote:Years ago, I was driving down the snowy I-90 in Eastern Utah late at night when my car suddenly died. I pulled over to the side of the road, and wondered what the heck I was going to do, as I couldn't see anyone on the desereted road in either direction and it was almost 3am. To my surprise, there was suddenly a knock on the driver's side window, and a kind, portly mustachioed man asked if I needed assistance. I popped the hood and he was able to spot a belt that had fallen off the engine. He quickly placed it, and the car was able to start. Before I drove off, I realized I had forgotten to thank the man or even get his name, and I hopped out to do so. But he was gone. I looked around, and not only was the man nowhere to be seen, THERE WERE NO FOOTSTEPS IN THE FRESHLY FALLEN SNOW!

I wonder...?


The Ghost of Teddy Roosevelt?
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

MASH quotes
I peeked in the back [of the Bible] Frank, the Devil did it.
I avoid church religiously.
This isn't one of my sermons, I expect you to listen.
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